Heretics of Dune

Not as good as the God Emperor but interested enough to finish the chronicles of Dune. I am about 1/2 way through.

After listening to the whole series and giving it a little more time I just wanted to add to this review. This is the best science fiction series out there. I enjoyed it even more the second time.

The first book in the series is my favorite, of course, but this book is tough to put down. I liked it far more than God Emperor of Dune, as Heretics incorporates a steeper build to the climax. I found the characters well rounded even though they are completely new, and Herbert manages not to dispose of the original favorites with references to the old Dune days. After struggling through God Emperor (just my opinion), Heretics of Dune was a welcome, intense story.

I enjoy character driven stories and Herbert excels at this, but he's too heavy handed to make for a perfect read. This is storytelling both engrossing and exhausting. Characters are deep and well developed but humorless. This is the kind of story I can't put down, find myself in awe of the author's skill and eloquence, and yet am relieved when it's over.

Of the original series, I struggled with this one the most as it dragged at times and then jumped around in time. Not sure I'll go on to finish the series book Chapter House. However, the follow on (post Frank Herbert) series - e.g. Butlerian Jihad, House Corrino, House Harkonnen, and House Atreides are all WINNERS ! must reads.

I enjoy character driven stories and Herbert excels at this, but he's too heavy handed to make for a perfect read. This is storytelling both engrossing and exhausting. Characters are deep and well developed but humorless. This is the kind of story I can't put down, find myself in awe of the author's skill and eloquence, and yet am relieved when it's over.

Of the original series, I struggled with this one the most as it dragged at times and then jumped around in time. Not sure I'll go on to finish the series book Chapter House. However, the follow on (post Frank Herbert) series - e.g. Butlerian Jihad, House Corrino, House Harkonnen, and House Atreides are all WINNERS ! must reads.

Good writing, but the path the book has taken is a bit weird coming off the first book, Dune. It's a dark book in my opinion, somewhat ominous, and treacherous. The main character of the book was victorious in Dune, and in this book he's basically dealing with all the haters. Meh.

I am re-reading the Dune series from the beginning. Heretics was very strikingly different, because it is the first book in the series where Herbert's frequent misuse of 'which' in place of the grammatically correct "that" does not appear. Go look at any of the first four books and see for yourself. This writing style change is so abrupt that I wonder if Heretics was "completed" by one of the writers that wrote later books in the Dune universe.

doesn't make it better. I hadn't read the book in 20 years and time sure brought out the warts in the story. No wonder everyone pushed the BG around they had absolutely no idea what the heck was going around them in Gammu. For over 100 years the scattering had been back and only now we're they aware of how they had already taken over. Herbert was getting lazy in his story making. When I first read this book a five star now barely a 2 star.

This one is a hard read. It would at first seem that Frank Harbert is just writing out his own sexual fantasies in this book (and it's likely he did) but as you get close to the end you start to realize the implications for a society that becomes overly smitten with sex. So beware that parts of this book read like erotic fiction but there is a point to it.

Forget reading anything after the first Dune novel. I made the mistake of buying them all at once and forced myself to read them all just to prove I could and also hoping there was some light at the end of the tunnel. Nope. Just a train.

Actually, at halfway through the book, I would describe the plot as non-existent. I haven't given up on it yet, but I'm still waiting for an actual story to begin. So far it has been an introduction to characters, a few hints as to what the story might be if it ever reveals itself, and page after page of meandering fluff. It reads more like a philosophical history text book than it does a work of science fiction. I find it hard to believe that the same man who wrote "Dune" also wrote this. I gave it two stars because I don't thoroughly hate it enough to only give it one...yet.
UPDATE: The book that made me stop reading the "Dune" series.

1,500 years have passed since the time of Leto II, the God Emperor. His fall marked the beginning of the Famine Times, prompting many to leave the known universe. Now the descendants of that Scattering have returned, in numbers that dwarf the empire they left behind. Only the Bene Gesserit stand against them, buying time while their plan comes to fruition. Once more the fate of mankind hinges on two special children. One is a young Duncan Idaho, the latest in a long line of gholas; the other is a child of the desert, Sheena, who has the power to command the worms of Rakis.

Heretics of Dune has everything fans have come to expect from a Dune book; a young protagonist groomed for a specific role, a strong female who challenges authority, and a plethora of complex ideas; ranging from the nature of power and strength, to the unavoidable inequality created by social hierarchies. And yet…something is missing.

Throughout the story there are numerous references to a looming threat on the horizon, but within the scenes themselves there’s little sense of urgency. Dialogue dominates every scene, a mix of heated debates that hint at a grand plan, and intellectual discussions that blatantly state the underlying ideas instead of quietly hinting at them. Flashbacks and summaries break up the monotony with warm memories that help to personalize each character. Unfortunately it’s the characters themselves that create the biggest problem.

Most stories begin with a disruption, and spend the rest of the story trying to restore order. But the Bene Gesserit, who dominate the story, have all passed through their trials. They are stable, strong, and implacable. In every situation they know exactly what to do, and they never hesitate. Against such opponents the antagonists struggle to keep up, engaging in brief skirmishes that quickly fizzle out, before finally mounting a proper offensive at the two-thirds mark. This forces the protagonists out of their secure routines; creating opportunities for younger, more dynamic characters to take center stage. The last quarter is as strong as anything in the Dune series, with an ending that feels fitting, if incomplete. Overall Heretics reads more like a prologue than an actual story, a necessary precursor to the real story, Chapterhouse: Dune.

+Strong Dialogue
*Complex but unchanging characters
*Numerous brief references to complex ideas
*Underdeveloped Plot
-Weak, repetitive scenes

3/5

Starting with God Emperor, Frank Herbert's DUNE series demands a greater effort from the reader to wade through. We spend a lot of time (WAY too much time) inside the characters' heads. The philosophy alternates between profound and banal (and highly repetitive). The aphorisms and quotations, fascinating in the early books, are now excessive. The characters' dialogue is often stilted. And the Bene Gesserit have to be the most passive-aggressive, anal retentive control freaks in human history. It's still intelligent and imaginative, but it all gets to be too much sometimes. I wish Herbert had edited and pruned the text by about a hundred pages. Frankly, the original DUNE sometimes had these problems too, but Herbert kept it under better control in the first book.

There are also so many female characters in HERETICS and CHAPTERHOUSE, and they are all so similar to each other, that honestly I had a hard time keeping them straight in my head. Still, if you've gone this far and have invested a lot of effort in the Dune story, it is very much worth reading. Because just when you think you can't stand it anymore, the plot picks up again and gets really interesting. And you want to know what will happen to Duncan Idaho, the only character who appears in all six Dune books.

Please, please, please, PLEASE!! Stop writing these sequels and prequels. Horrid writing, poor story. Seriously, the writers seem to be bent on destroying the greatest sci-fi series of all time. Seriously, if this is just for the money, I suggest fans get together and pay them NOT to write. I'd donate.

Having now read the series, I can say with some certainty that this is the beginning of his story. The previous books are interesting in and of themselves, but what he has done in them is introduce the basic concepts, technology, and political dynamics that are to be the basis for this, his last book, and the one or two he had intended but was unable to write. This is the easiest to read so far for that reason.
And yet he manages to keep the Duniverse from being static here. His novel opens on the return from unknown regions of various groups who had traveled widely and had been changed by their new surroundings; normal people, Bene Gesserit, Bene Tleilax, and Face Dancers. The latter three have become new factions, with their own agendas which are often opposed to that of their counterparts. Dune undergoes a dramatic change, and there is a threat from an unknown but fearsome enemy.
But what appealed to me in this book more than any previous was his vision of humanity's evolution; the groups each find ways to improve physically, mentally or even sexually which their predecessors would have found extraordinary. Safe to say that in 'Heretics', Herbert had finally found a way of blending story with politics, evolution, technology, and ecology. The first four were a devil to get through, but this one would have made no sense without them.

A science fiction novel can bring pleasure in many ways, not least by being a good novel. A novel wants strong characters, a believable and intriguing plot (carrying you down the river like Huck Finn), maybe description of manners or society, some Dickensonian humor, or witty dialogue. Science fiction holds a few extra tricks up its sleave: it can, for example, create a world like Pandora, that so overwhelms you with its creatively imagined beauty that you forget how stilted the dialogue is, and how hokey the story. Or it can win you over with swashbuckle and humor and a few likable characters, as the original Star Wars did.

Frank Herbert is really good at interposing Machivalean politics on future worlds, the familiar within the strange that is one key to great art. His histories have a solidity and plausibility (aside from a degree of foresight in some key characters that no one in a world with so many variables could possibly manage) that show the same sort of serious craftsmanship that Tolkien engaged in. He locates the concept of seediness on another planet and time in which our "high tech" has become their "backwards:" it is almost believable.

This book however fails, in my opinion, as a novel in two ways, and as a science fiction novel in one more.

First, I don't find many of the characters very believable or attractive. The little girl, maybe. The Reverend Mothers all seem to blend into one another. Duncan Idaho is confused, then suddenly fuses with his old selves seemlessly, and is cool, but doesn't have anything to do. Teg and the little girl are Herbert's best efforts at creating interesting characters, and they succeed to some extent. But then Teg suddenly steps into a phone booth and turns into a Superhero, with little explanation, and he becomes too all-knowing and too Stoical to be that interesting, though with a helpful remaining tinge of sadness.

Second, there are lots of sudden jumps in plot as well as person. Teg again endures the worst. (Spoiler alert.) He's taken captive by unknowns, who turns out to be old comrades, who nevertheless take him to Spectre Headquarters. He's tempted with the Ultmate Femme Fatale, who turns out to be no temptation at all: he pulls out his light saber (??? no other weapon is named, that I caught) and old and frail as he is, takes out 50 enemy troops, including a few allegedly adept rooks, bishops, and queens. He throws the bloodied light saber in a trash can (???), drops into an upscale restaurant around the corner, and NO ONE follows him! Nor does he expect them to. He then calls a bunch of locals out to battle the remaining queens, and their legions of pawns, and next thing we know, he's on another planet, picking up a giant worm whose arrival he expected. (Psychically? or by logical deduction?)

Apparently Herbert just didn't have time to explain what happened.

Finally, on the "bold new worlds" front, this one is a mostly uninteresting. There are a few flashbacks, maybe a few decent scenes, but they don't carry the story, which take place partly on the familiar planet of Arakis, and partly on the old Harkenan planet, which has a few decadent old ruins, though it is not a place likely to attract many tourists.

Still, there remains a grandeur to Herbert's creation that, with the interstellar yet still human politics, and insights at key points in the story, whose brilliance however make the book hard for those who see it to dismiss. Herbert is also good at juggling stories and factions; even if (I think) the baubbles do fall to the ground in the end.

I listened to this on tape. This makes following the plot even harder, but the reader is extremely talented.

[Nota Bene: As Frank Herbert's last two published novels in the Dune series, Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse: Dune, along with the unwritten Dune 7, in fact comprise a single story that happened to be divided into three parts, I'll post the same review for both of the two published volumes. This review contains no spoilers.]

During the first half of his literary career, Frank Herbert focused most on coming to terms with what it meant to be conscious. The evolution of his thinking on the subject can be traced from real-world events which happened to him in his youth, through his earliest published science fiction stories, crude as they were, and on into novels like The Dragon in the Sea and the stories that would coalesce into The Godmakers, and certainly The Santaroga Barrier and Destination: Void. This line of thinking reached its fruition in the novels Dune and Dune Messiah.

Having expanded his understanding of the full spectrum of consciousness about as far as it could go (although admittedly he never stopped tinkering with the subject), in the second half of his career Herbert refocused his attention on how the limitations imposed upon individual consciousness - or perhaps it might be better to say the limited perspective encompassing a single human lifetime - leaves humanity ill-equipped to confront an infinite and ever-changing universe. In effect we end up in a continuous crisis mode, always vainly insisting that the world of tomorrow conform to the expectations of yesterday. We're persistently and comically always shocked to discover our assumptions are wrong. Elsewhere I have described this aspect of Herbert's thinking, the human failure to deal with, or even to recognize, the implications of an unbounded universe, as an absolute-infinity breach. This theme begins to emerge in Children of Dune and is especially prominent in God Emperor of Dune, for a final surmounting of the absolute-infinity breach is the primary target of Leto II's Golden Path. But we also encounter the concern in Herbert's final trilogy: Heretics of Dune, Chapterhouse: Dune, and (by implication) in the unwritten Dune 7.

It is a hallmark of Herbert's imagination that he pursues an ever-elaborating expanse of concerns, always tracing a spectral pathway across a continuum of broadening bandwidth, chasing after considerations of widening implications across grander and grander scales of magnitude. An original interest in a fleeting moment of hyperconsciousness ultimately led Herbert into defining consciousness, hyperconsciousness and subconsciousness in all their aspects and dramatizing what he had learned and concluded in his stories; likewise his contemplations of the diverse implications of the absolute-infinity breach. And it might be added that he pushed his spectral analytical approach through time as well, so the Dune saga becomes probably the most temporally discontinuous series ever written. The first three novels take place roughly around the year 21,200 AD. The drama of God Emperor of Dune unfolds 3,500 years later, and that of the last three books (Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse: Dune are difficult novels, and attempting to distinguish them as separate novels, or independent from the unwritten Dune 7, is an artificial and arbitrary exercise) takes place an additional 1,500 years after that, placing us circa 26,200 AD.

As the primary goal of Children of Dune and God Emperor of Dune was to shatter the innate mythmaking in humanity that compels us to conservative convergence, these last three books are intended to unveil the consequences of living in a multiverse that has become irreparably divergent. This divergence followed in the wake of the downfall of the God Emperor and the subsequent Scattering of humanity not throughout multiple star systems or galaxies, but across multiple universes which are discontinuous with one another. Any threat can now come upon our heroes and heroines from any direction, but with all the eggs no longer in one basket, no matter what catastrophe might befall locally, the whole story can never come to a final end.

In Heretics of Dune (1984) and Chapterhouse: Dune (1985), the Bene Gesserit has recovered substantially from the tribulation of the era of the God Emperor, and now we're allowed a far more intensive view of the inner workings of the Sisterhood than ever before. But the Bene Gesserit and the remnants of the old Imperium, as ever, are confronted by a host of power-hungry enemies, new and old, in the usual style of Herbert's Machiavellian plotting. It is these plots-within-plots that seemingly all other reviewers have focused on, and I'll forego doing the same here.

Herbert said it wasn't until he was writing Children of Dune that he came to understand that an important role of an author was to entertain his readership. That will come as surprising news to some of you who like Herbert, and not to some of you who don't. But it's important to note that the word "entertainment" carries different connotations for readers than it does for hacks or more seriously-aspiring authors. Entertainment is something that is doled out to the action-adventure-thriller crowd, to those who love reading or going to the movies in no small part for the sheer escapism of the thing. Now I'm not overly bigoted about this. There's nothing more boring than a book that's, well, boring. But I think what Herbert was getting at was that as he matured as a writer he came to see, as many writers do, that plot per se is less interesting than character, no matter how many car chases or lasgun exchanges are involved.

I for one can't separate a reading of the last books of the Dune series from knowledge of what was going on in Herbert's life as he wrote them, which he did, by that way, at an absolutely furious pace. This happened to be during the most stressful part of his entire life. His wife, Beverly, had been dying for ten years, and the last two years of her life were especially painful for her and for her husband, both physically and emotionally. I believe that, had he lived, Frank Herbert would have easily written the Dune 7 novel to complete the series. I am less sanguine that he could ever have written another coherent novel after that one.

By the time God Emperor of Dune was published in 1981, and with the signed contracts for the later Dune novels in hand, Herbert was financially secure but, as I've suggested, he was suffering from increasing emotional instability. Furthermore, I can't help believing he was struck by a supreme irony, which is that, like Paul Maud'Dib, he now found himself hemmed in by the conservative mythology of his own image which he himself had created. To this day you can still see this in reviews of his later books, wherein readers who were born after Herbert's death still bemoan the fact that his later books are not like Dune in style. Everyone wanted, and continues to want, Frank Herbert to write books that seem like quote-unquote Frank Herbert books: everyone wanted, and wants, Herbert to remain frozen unchanging in 1965. But in his later years Herbert, with his financial security, felt free to try to break out of that myth regardless of the demands and expectations of his fans, and for this I applaud him. I'm sure he did have basic plot elements in mind for the last three books of the series - call this the "entertainment" necessary to bring the masses along - but it's quite obvious that he had already grown more interested in character development than in weaving such masterful webs of palace intrigue anymore.

Herbert wanted to change course, but he had not yet found a new direction. I see hints of this in Children of Dune, in which Duncan Idaho tells Alia about the practice of setting out blocks of marble in the desert to be etched by the blowing sand of a Coriolis storm. Idaho argues that the sculpted pieces produced are beautiful but they are not art, as they are not carved according to human volition. But in the latter books it is Sheeana who creates an abstract sculpture she calls "The Void," which is art. How might these two kinds of sculpture compare? What is the symbolic significance of Sheeana's abstract work? The question is particularly relevant, it seems to me, when Sheeana's piece is recognized as a symbol set in tension with a Van Gogh which, at the end of Chapterhouse: Dune is carted off into a new, uncharted universe. Clearly, I think, the matter can be read as a form of self-psychoanalysis undertaken by the author. "The Void" is the primitive and unformed new expression welling up inside him; the old and familiar, even conventional Van Gogh has been let slip away with a fond farewell.

A kind of quantum uncertainty pervades Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse: Dune which are, after all, a single story occupying multiple volumes. We do not have enough pieces to interpret this story, which must therefore remain finally unadjudicated and unjudgeable. This is because the unwritten Dune 7 was also to have comprised a full third of the complete tale. We can see that Herbert was bending writing to a new direction, and we can hazard some educated guesses about (entertaining) plot elements that would have informed the third book, but we can never know. The best we can do is ponder any written records or notes that Herbert may have left behind as poles in the sand to mark the path he intended to follow. Anyone who possesses any such notes, it seems to me, can be a good steward to the memory of Frank Herbert only by publishing them in unexpurgated form: lacking that, Herbert's career accomplishments can never be properly assessed. And that is an injustice to an important 20th century American writer.

Bob R Bogle
Author of Frank Herbert: The Works

I loved the first 4 books in Herbert's Dune saga, but I just couldn't get into Heretics of Dune. The book is set in the aftermath of Emperor Leto's reign and the Scattering of humans into the far reaches. The story itself focuses on the Bene Gesserit. And that's where I think it went wrong.

I never much cared for the Bene Gesserit. They seemed a bit too cartoonish. The sisters have incredibly high opinions of themselves but always seem to mess things up. They always seemed to have these devious plans but their motivation was never quite clear (yes, to control the breeding, but for what?).

That's all fine when the Bene Gesserit characters were in the background, but when they're front and center it's hard to really care about the book. The main Bene Gesserit characters all come across as humorless and staid. They had few distinguishing character quirks and quickly started to blend in with each other. In short, aside from the name I could barely tell them apart.

As for the plot itself - it suffers from too much "tell, not show." We get the sense that a group of returnees from the Scattering, the Honored Matres, pose a threat to the Bene Gesserit. However, we really only learn this from conversations. We never really see why the Honored Matres are such a threat. To the reader, they seem like an even more pathetic version of the Bene Gesserit. Their secret weapon is that they can give really good sex (I kid you not!). The first time we see an Honored Matres put her "skills" into action - and I do mean "see her in action" - SHE succumbs to the man because he gives her a good orgasm and knows where to touch her. She becomes a pathetic fool nearly willing to do whatever he says. Some threat!

I like the fact that Herbert tried to tell a tale in a new time frame with new characters rather than just go back and tell the story of Paul in his youth. However, this new era just doesn't seem all that different. It feels like Herbert recycled too many familiar concepts and gave them new names rather than creating a truly new era. The fact that their name is just a synonym for Reverend Mother makes it hard to think of them as anything but a shadow of the original Bene Gesserit.

Unfortunately, I have no desire to read ChapterHouse Dune. I highly recommend the first 4 Dune books, but this is where my Dune journey ends. No more Bene Gesserit for me.

I actually really enjoyed the Dune series up to this book. It's just a brutal slog to read through, its like reading through quicksand, the story is nearly non-existant, it drags, it had ridiculous "twists" and makes little to no sense in the end. Not at all worth the time taken to get through it and trust me it took a lot of effort to push through it. I honestly don't know if I have it in me to get through chapterhouse Dune. Honestly, I'm going to start Chapterhouse and give it 30 pages. If it even remotely seems to be like this one, I'm tapping out. My advise is to read the first 4 books and then stop. If 6 turns out to be good then I'll revise my recommendation to advise you to skip this one and go to 6.

I have been slowly re-reading the Dune series of novels, all of which I read when they first appeared. This was the first one that kind of lost me, mostly because I didn't understand what Herbert was getting at. Happily, it got much better when I re-read it, to the point that I think this is the best volume since the first one. Below is my interpretation, in which I have not attempted to hide spoilers.

The tyrant, Leto II, has long since disappeared from the scene. He shaped the economic and political systems in the human universe in a way that led to crisis and supreme innovation. First, during a terrible famine - when trade broke down as spice production dropped to near-zero - huge portions of humankind "scattered" into new areas of space. Members from all the great orders, each with niche specialties, disappeared and re-made themselves into new types of power. Second, the original great powers also evolved, incorporating the developments that the Atreides embodied and then created once in power. The Bene Gesserit brought Atreides attributes into the heart of their order, forcing the sisterhood to re-evaluate its mission but also adding genetic attributes. Third, the influence of Leto II could still be found in the worms on Rakis, which he had altered as much as they had altered him when they split from his body upon death. This somehow held a portion of humanity to certain patterns, culminating in a mutant child, Sheanna, who can somehow communicate with them directly. The result was a fantastic era of experimentation, in which the ancient monopolies on spice, space travel, and genetics were eroded decisively, merging in a way as the competing groups gained competencies.

The center of this book is the Bene Gesserit, which is evolving in response to the threat of an new empire, the Honored Matres, a rival sisterhood that has mastered seduction in ways that can enslave any male they choose. The great treat of this is that the reader can understand how the Bene Gesserit work in a far more detailed way than in previous volumes. With the enhanced abilities that the spice confers on them, they push human capabilities to new levels, not just in extending political discipline beyond a single life time (e.g. their breeding programs), but in control of their minds and bodies, even their emotions. Their purpose, while cryptic and never completely defined - seeds for the imagination! - is related to survival and perfection of the human species as well as perpetuating their order, which is now more of a military power than the indirect and hidden power that it was before. This is one of the greatest imaginative constructs in all of science fiction and is revealed bit by bit throughout this novel.

In the face of the threat, the Bene Gesserit seek to ally themselves with the Bene Tleilaxu, the secretive masters of genetics who turn out to be religious zealots as well. In the process, the Bene Gesserit learn many of that order's greatest secrets, in particular the axlotl tank (which can grow humans as well as manufacture spice). The focus of their interaction is the latest version of the Ghola Idaho, who was bred to match the skills of the Matres from the male side. A war ensues, with the Matres destroying entire planets in order to counter the Idaho threat to their power. During this conflict, leaders of the Bene Gesserit begin to question whether the sisterhood has lost its way - its humanity - because they can deny even love in their manipulations to dominate galactic politics. This is where the "heretics" come in.

At the same time, one of the Bene Gesserit operatives - Miles Teg, the supreme military leader - discovers new abilities, the ever-present unknown that arises in the Herbert series. He gains super-human speed, but also something akin to yet beyond the prescience of his Atreides ancestors. The meaning and implications are left largely to the imagination of the reader. I think he represents a new variation, which will enable the Bene Gesserit to fight the savage Matres. Teg's transformation, in my opinion, is not as believable as many of the other fantastic details of the book. The result is a new diversity in the human species, pushing it into new areas in the face of a great threat.

This is really brainy stuff, a deep philosophical approach that I found wonderful and fascinating. As with the greatest scifi, the reader enters worlds so fantastic and detailed that they are awe-inspiring. I will read this again someday and see many more things than I did before, no doubt.

REcommended with the greatest enthusiasm. Herbert's book is fabulously fertile.

Back when I was in high school, I had gotten the whole Dune series as a gift. After reading and loving to death the original, I continued on in the series but quickly lost interest. However, it always ate at me that I had never finished the series, and being a few years wiser, thought I would pick up the series and try again. After finishing Heretics of Dune, I can see why I put the series down all those years ago.

Simply put, there just wasn't much point to this novel. The vast majority of the events that take place seem to happen for no reason whatsoever. For example, what was the point of Duncan? The Bene Gesserit bring him back, spend all that time training him, and constantly fight off assassination attempts on him only to have him do absolutely nothing of any value in the novel. Another pointless story thread was the focus on the Bene Teliux. In the end, nothing really came of their alliance and all the facts we learn about them (other than filling in pages). The character of Sheanna, who I found very interesting at the outset of the novel, ended up doing little of anything (other than dancing in front of worms). Her important purpose in the end was only to coax a worm onto a ship. Problem is, this had already been accomplished way back in Dune Messiah without the aide of any worm speaker. Hell, the only part of the novel that anything really interesting happened story wise was the ending. Problem is, the ending is completely glossed over, being explained in a few sentences, and seems to come out of nowhere and for little purpose. Maybe I missed something, but I never really did fully understand why the Teliux were so obsessed with killing Duncan and for what reason Dune had to be destroyed.

This is a more subjective complaint, but another problem I had with the novel was the focus on the Bene Gesserit. To put it bluntly, I found every Reverend Mother to be incredibly annoying. Every conversation involving a reverend Mother devolves into "Reverend Mother so-and-so said this, other character reacts in fear/dismay and reveals important information". I got really fed up with the constant belittling of every other characters intellectual abilities and how the Bene Gesserit were able force everyone to do what they wanted through empty threats. The Gesserit characters always seemed to make massive leaps of logic and would always be right. What I found especially strange however, was that for all there intellectual prowess and emotional control, Reverend Mothers seem to completely lose their composure every time something doesn't go their way (ex. when Lusscia can't "imprint" on Duncan)

Furthermore, the Bene Gesserit aren't very good protagonists. The Gesserit are completely obsessed with their breeding program (by the way, why the heck haven't they accomplished anything in the thousands of years they have been doing this?), indoctrinate all their followers, and are constantly forcing everyone into some form of bondage. All Bene Gesserit characters seem to have no personal morals whatsoever. Herbert touches on this several times by mentioning their only goal is "survival". This was fine when the Bene Gesserit were villains (or a neutral party), but now that they are the protagonists, I found it very irritating to be forced into seeing the story from their perspective (and watching characters that I liked, such as Teg, do their bidding).

One last complaint I had was with all the so called "philosophy" throughout this novel. While not as bad as God Emperor, there was an overuse of deliberately vague and obtuse sections of the novel that try to preach some kind of deep lesson. Who knows, maybe I'm stupid, but I didn't find any of the "philosophical" lessons to be particularly deep or worthwhile to the plot of the novel.

Despite all the complaints I had, I still somewhat enjoyed the book. I thought the character of Miles Teg was a brilliant addition and was the most interesting character since Paul Maud'dib. The characters of Duncan and Sheanna were also interesting (too bad they didn't do much). Also, I found the overall premise of the plot to be quite interesting. Seeing the after effects of Leto II's golden path, and the threat from those returning from the scattering was neat. Maybe some of my complaints will be alleviated when I read Chapter House: Dune, but as it stands right now, I was no particularly impressed with this novel.

When I came here to write this review of Frank Herbert's "Heretics of Dune," I had to go back and look at my Kindle to ensure I was reviewing the same book as the other reviewers here. The book currently has a rating of 4.3 stars out of 5 and I'm giving it an Awful 1 star out of 5. I have no idea why I'm seeing something entirely different from most people. But, I'll try my best to explain my rating.

- This book takes place about 10,000 (yes, that's ten thousand) years after Paul Atreides was walking around Dune. In our terms, ten thousand years ago, we were just figuring out how to stick plants in the ground and grow them (i.e., the discovery of Agriculture) and Egypt was still a five thousand years in the future glint in someone's eye. During this time in the series, Leto, spent almost four thousand of those years changing the human race ("God Emperor of Dune"). This book is still six thousand years in the future from that. Yet, darn near all the old organizations from "Dune" are still present and behaving practically the same way they did back then. Oh, I tell a lie. [mild spoiler] The Bene Tleilax were faking their behavior all those millennia: they're actually dumber than they pretended [/mild spoiler]. Also, the Bene Gesserit appear to have added the behavior patterns of a crime family staffed by henchmen to their attitudes (if they don't like you, you'll be wearing concrete galoshes).

- The most obviously bad thing about the book revolves around what appears to be the plot of the whole thing (until the last couple of pages). Supposedly, this is all about the need of the Bene Gesserit to awaken a ghola Duncan Idaho and get him to [Ar]Rakis to breed (?) with a girl who's cropped up who can ride and control sandworms. Why? We don't know. What the BG are supposed to get out of such a match? We don't know. What the connection between these two people are? We don't know. All we supposedly know is that this appears to be absolutely vital to the BG and is sapping their resources. Yet, in all of the book's 484 pages, there's just about zero movement in this plot. We're treated to all kinds of writing at both ends of the connection, but until the last couple of pages, those ends never move towards each other. [mild spoiler] What we get in the last two or three pages is a phrase or two stating that the point of the whole thing was something very, very different. But, there's nothing in the book that could possibly lead the reader to see how the BG could think the universe-changing event was necessary or even possible via their machinations. If Herbert thought this should have been what was really happening, then, by gum, he should have spent some time telling us about it and running parallel interpretations through the book [/mild spoiler].

- Then, there's the matter of the writing. Technically, Herbert's use of the language is very good. The problem is he doesn't GO anywhere with the language. Every step a character makes is preceded and followed with pages of history, agriculture, architecture and geography. Every statement is accompanied by pages of philosophy and inner thought about a character's childhood or career. The story just gets mired in all the associated dross.

- All of the above was bad enough for me to rate the book at merely a Pretty Bad 2 stars out of 5. But, what happened to cause me to revise my rating downward? Well, at about the 70% point in the book, the characters start trekking about Gammu and the whole world and the book change. Suddenly, the BG who have a Keep (a safe house) on the planet for their absolutely vital project don't seem to have any idea who lives on the planet, what its society (or religion) is like, or [mild spoiler] the fact that it appears to be overrun (and ruled) by their enemy [/mild spoiler]. Also, the personal abilities of certain people become almost magical. Heck, with no earlier hints in the book, one of the main characters suddenly develops not just such magical abilities, but also a Kwisatz Haderach level ability of an entirely different cast. There's nothing in the book to support this stuff and the physics and biology of it is just silly.

So, that's why I rate "Heretics of Dune" at an Awful 1 star out of 5. If you've read the series up to now, I highly recommend you just stop. This book isn't worth the expense in time or money.

And to help people find all the books in the original Dune series (i.e., when Frank Herbert was still alive):
1. Dune (40th Anniversary Edition) (Dune Chronicles, Book 1)
2. Dune Messiah
3. Children Of Dune: The Third Dune Novel
4. God Emperor of Dune
5. Heretics of Dune
6. Chapterhouse: Dune

NOTE: My 10,000 year comment, above, is based on a quotation at the start of a chapter: "Ten thousand years since Leto II began his metamorphosis from human into the sandworm of Rakis and historians still argue over his motives...." According to my Kindle, that's at page 72 (or location 1374). I don't know if that quotation is supposed to be from a future document or from a concurrent one. But, no matter the actual number, we're still talking millennia, here. It's just silly to think ANYTHING would survive in its same form over those time spans.

Just as "Dune" and "Dune Messiah" were two books which comprised one story, "Heretics of Dune" and "Chapterhouse Dune" make up a two book story.
It is 1500 years after the Tyrant, Leto II was killed. Arrakis, now called Rakis, which Leto had transformed into a lush paradise (and thus killed the worms that supplied Spice) is turning back to a desert, complete with sandworms. Following Leto's death, humankind went to the four corners of the universe, in something called "The Scattering". Now, some of them are returning, in the form of the Honored Matres, wild women who practice sexual enslavement of men, and seem intent on destroying, utterly, anyone who opposes them.
The only ones who have any hope of opposing them are the Bene Gesserit Sisterhood who are involved in a project, raising yet another ghola of Duncan Idaho on the planet of Gammu.
"Heretics" is an exciting story which focuses on the Bene Gesserits, giving a far more sympathetic portrayal of them than we have yet seen. Two of my favorite characters are introduced in this book: Miles Teg, the sisterhood's military advisor, and Darwi Odrade, a reverend mother who is somewhat of a heretic in the Sisterhood because of her refusal to fully abandon love and sentiment, which are strongly discouraged by the Bene Gesserits.
This book recaptures some of the adventure seen in "Dune" and "Children of Dune," and has many warm, interesting, and compelling characters. Herbert tries to portray more of what everyday life is like in the Dune universe, trying hard to depict several cities, and how "average" people go about their lives. Perhaps it is because I am not used to seeing such depictions in his books, but I don't think these worked entirely, and I had a hard time envisioning what he described.
The Honored Matres, on the other hand, I had no trouble visualizing. What great villains! They are sinister and genuinely menacing villains, the likes of which we have not seen since the House Harkkonen in the original "Dune."
The ending of the book was too rushed, for my tastes, Herbert glossed over most of the actual battles with the Honored Matres. There was something of a cliffhanger ending, at the end, which is sad, because the book's sequal, "Chapterhouse Dune" was very disappointing, capturing almost none of this book's appeal.

"Heretics of Dune" is the fifth novel in the "Dune Chronicles" over continuing thousand years after the previous book. The detailed writing style is superb with a fine mixture of politics, warfare, and individual introspection. The drastic planetary changes found in the prior novel have returned mostly to the original conditions. The influence of the Golden Path by Leto II relentlessly affects the universe.

The installment contains many engaging characters (largely Atreides descendents), beginning with a new ghola Duncan Idaho. Improving on the previous Duncan models has continued with some amazing results near the story's end. Sheeana of Rakis displays fascinating powers over Shaitan in the desert. The best addition to characters vaguely similar from previous books is the Mentat Bashar Miles Teg. This brilliant military mind interacts well with Duncan and manages the Bene Gesserit calmly after returning from retirement. Not as much prescience as seen in the past, which I found relieving.

As with the planet formerly known as Arrakis, the series has evolved. Spice addiction has fallen into the background, although the sandworm is not as common as millennium past. Brief sexual content finds its way into the chronicles for the first time, I didn't care for specifically but is crucial motivation behind certain events. No appendixes conclude the novel but still a glossary would have sufficed. A detailed map of the significant terrains, especially with the climate transformation of Arrakis, would have been useful.

I highly recommend the series to any fan of the science fiction genre.

Thank you.

Heretics takes place 1500 years after the death of Leto the Tyrant and some five thousand years after the original Dune novel. Human domains face a new challange, that of the return of "The Scattering" that left in the wake of the famine that followed Leto the Second's death. There is a powerful new group that has entered the scene, a group of women known as the Honored Matres who can control men with their newly discovered techniques of sexual prowess.

Due to the superior numbers of the Honored Matres and their new sexual techniques, the Bene Gesserit are on their heels. However, they have both a new Duncan Idaho ghola and have found a girl who can communicate with the "Divided God" on Rakis (the current name for Dune.)

The Bene Gesserit devise a plan for their own survival, and it includes both the Idaho ghola and this Rakian girl. They will need to use all of their abilities and manipulate old rivals such as the Bene Tleilax to maintain their status.

This novel bounces around more than the others. The majority of the action occurs off of Rakis, though Rakis is vital in the plot of this fifth volume of this epic. With the extablishment fighting for its very survival against this new onslaught, a combination of creativity and desparation is both needed and evident.

Herbert has done a supurb job of keeping this story moving through the millenia as the characters keep changing, but the major "geopolitical" players remain the same (with the exception of the major new addition of the Honored Matres.)

This is a thrilling novel, pitting the Bene Gesserit against a new enemy, the Honored Matres. Obviously there must be some relationship between an order of women devoted to politics and breeding stock (Bene Gesserit=Well Bred) and a group of fearsome fighting women who unlike the Bene Gesserit, seem not to be addicted to the Spice. The Spice is that drug that creates the ability to see past and future and all the lives encapsulated in one's genes. It's now even more valuable as Rakis (once Arrakis) no longer produces the quantities of Spice as before.

And what happened to the Fish Speakers, God Emperor Leto's army after the Diaspora, that time he had forseen when men would be scattered throughout the universe and once again re-invent humanity. Did they become the Honored Matres? Or are the Honored Matres something else?

We get a new character here in the style of Paul Atreides, maybe even more successful than Paul; Miles Teg. A descendant of Paul, he is a born general and vital to the Bene Gesserit in their desperate fight to hold onto their worlds against the Honored Matres onslaught. And Duncan Idaho is reborn yet again, this time to serve the Bene Gesserit as he served the Atreides in the past.

This book is almost as good as the original Dune, and its successor, Chapterhouse Dune is equally good. Together they make for an exciting set of science fiction novels.

The Dune Universe continues in this fifth installment. The only familiar character is, once again, Duncan Idaho. You get to know him even more than in all the previous books. But there are now two new interesting characters.

The first is Atreides descendant Miles Teg who is a great warrior and leader. He looks like the old Duke Leto Atreides and is called upon by the Bene Gesserit to help restore the memories of the latest Duncan Idaho Ghola.

Also there is Sheeanna, a young girl with the ability to speak to the great worms of Rakis (Arrakis/Dune) and the desire to align herself with the Bene Gesserit.

The story is not the easiest read, but it builds up to a powerful and fascinating ending that leads right into the sixth book.

The most interesting part of the book, I found, was watching how Duncan Idaho's previous memories were restored. In previous books, other than the 2nd, it was just done before we even met the Duncans. This time you get to experience what Duncan goes through, and how he feels, and this really makes these fascinating.

If you've loved the Dune universe and the previous four books, don't stop. This is a great book to continue the Dune epic.

Heretics opens into a period of time completely new to the series. All the familiar characters are gone with one exception (Duncan Idaho, and by this point in the series readers shouldn't be that surprised.) When telling people about the Dune series I always tell them it can be broken down into three segments: books 1,2,3; book 4; and books 5 and 6. In Heretics, we really start to see the effects of Leto II's Golden Path unfold before us. While events technically started in God Emperor, Heretics really sees everything set in place and start to bloom.

Heretics splits the focus between the Bene Geserit (the primary protagonists), a girl named Sheeanna who can communicate with sandworms, the Tleilaxu, the Rakian priesthood, and the Honored Matres (a new faction.) Everyone becomes intertwined as we watch the story unfold, with much of the beginning of the book setting the scene of this new time period. The middle and end of the book however are packed full of events. Of all the Dune books, this one is probably the most eventful, culminating in a surprising ending.

Heretics is my personal favorite of the series after the original because it really sees the overall story of the series come to fruition. While some say it is in Chapterhouse that the series blooms, to me Heretics is truly when we realize why Leto II did everything that he did, and everything falls into place.

The Dune timeline again jumps in millenial chunks. Leto's Scattering has come to pass. The people out there have changed, and are now returning, as a threat. The Bene Gesserit are the people that realise this, and are preparing.

The Honoured Matres are the worst of these, a female order somewhat similar to the Bene Gesserit but using sex and violence overtly to get what they want.

The Bene Gesserit have a super soldier/mentat named Miles Teg, who rescues another Ducan Idaho ghola the Tleilax have plans for. Teg has superhuman speed on all counts.

The Tleilax are worried the Bene Gesserit and Honoured Matres may work together, and Idaho is part of their plan to prevent this, he has been trained as a counter agent to the sexual domination powers of the Matres, enabling him to turn one of them.

The Matres want to destroy the planets with sandworms, but the Bene Gesserit, with Teg's help, manage to save one, and can take it back to one of their strongholds, to start the cycle again.

This fifth volume in the Dune sequence by Frank Herbert is essential to understand the whole sequence. It is also essential because the center used so far is slightly, even radically, shifted. Dune, Arrakis, now Rakis is no longer the center of this saga, but only the key to the last development of the novel, the keystone of the denouement which brings the total sterilisation of the planet.
The main change or shift is the fact that the novel is centered on The Bene Gesserit Sisterhood. They hold the energy necessary to the action. They are the only force able to bring together two newcomers. Sheeana, this girl who can speak to the worms, who can speak to the descendants of the Tyrant or God Emperor, Leto II. She obviously holds in her the essential genetic elements that can bring the total regeneration of this universe, because this universe is totally rotten, even worse than the Kingdom of Denmark. This girl enables the religious system on Rakis to shift from the Priesthood, the heirs of the God Emperor, of the now Divided God, to the necessary recuperation of the Worm, of the God Emperor's teaching and its radical renewing by a deep rejuvenation and questioning, based on the popular faith that has never died in spite of all pressures. A new perspective is supposed to come out of this re-evaluation.
But a new female order appears in the picture, a conquering order of Honored Matres who want to enslave the whole world. Their method and tool is sex. They have devised a new sexual technique that makes men subservient and totally dependent. They conquer total power by giving the illusion to their direct slaves that they do take part in this power, though these slaves have to betray all human feelings, all faithfulness, all legitimacy in their thinking and living in order to have a position that controls - which is a total illusion - a little sector of society. They are nothing but tools used by these Honored Matres to conquer and control the world, to reduce 99.99% of the population to, the simple status of « scum ».
This novel hence is heavily centered on two women's orders. The Bene Gesserit who uses accumulated knowledge and constant reevaluation of this knowledge to understand history, to understand the real perspective of the real world, hence to step beyond the limits of the history of historians who only rewrite the past to fit the projects of the men in power, of the tyrants in power. We may note that this order is yet based on a minority that controls the world, though this minority is trying to guide the world into a higher level of consciousness, of awareness. For them sex is nothing but a tool to achieve some genetic goals : the selection of exceptional people who will be able to concentrate in them the qualities and the mental powers of the best blood lines ever produced by humanity, one being that of the Atreides. On the other side The Honored Matres do not aim at entrusting the world to the best men and women ever existing, but only to control, manipulate and destroy, to enslave in one word, and for them sexuality is the tool of that enslavement.
This novel shows how the fight between those two orders is doomed in the short run because their is no weapon or protection against this sexual power of the Honored Matres. Yet, the Mother Superior of the Bene Gesserit is trying to bring together the elements that are going to produce their final success. Those tools are Sheeana, since she has direct contact with the worm. Then a new ghola of Idaho Duncan (a real obsession in this sequence of novels that is finally broken, because the present ghola is to be the last one) produced by the Bene Tleilax (but the Tleilaxu are fiends and they have implanted in this ghola the order to kill the Bene Gesserit Imprinter who will reawaken his sexual desire, as well as the total sexual power that the Honored Matres have produced, and this fiendish as well as thoughtless act will give the Bene Gesserit the power to explore this special weapon used by the Honored Matres, because the ghola is imprinted by an Honored Matres who becomes the total slave of the ghola since he has a power that is equal at least to hers and she does not know how to cope, and because the ghola impregnates her and the child that will be a good study specimen). Then Teg Miles, the supreme Bashar of the Bene Gesserit, who is transformed in his mental and physical powers by the attempt of the Honored Matres to prenetrate his psyche, his body awareness to know the plans of the Bene Gesserit, and that attempt is a mistake (Teg is able to organize a rebellion that saves the ghola, himself and a few other faithful fighters, and Teg is able to bring the ghola to Rakis and to know where exactly the worm who is carrying Sheeana and Odrade is intended to come to deliver them to him and the no-ship he has captured). Note Teg will have to sacrifice himself and his faithful followers for this no-ship to go.
The most interesting element is the constant negociation between the Bene Gesserit and the Bene Tleilax, and the final defeat of the Bene Tleilax, because the Bene Gesserit is able to use the Bene Tleilax's religious beliefs to lure them.
Dr Jacques COULARDEAU, Paris Universities II and IX.

After being suitably enraptured by the original Dune, I went further into the series eagerly. Dune Messiah was... alright. There were redeeming moments, but the heavy use of political intrigue with little action was rather surprising. Then came Children of Dune which I enjoyed even less than Messiah. Even more political intrigue, seemingly even less action to keep the book well-rounded and true to the original, and characters you could hardly feel for. Children of Dune wasn't a 'bad' book necessarily, but hardly lived up to the expectations set by the original. Next came God Emperor of Dune. This one was slightly more intriguing, but vastly more confusing. The author is commended for trying to explain the innermost workings of the Tyrant's psychological states throughout the book, but generally tended to confuse rather than enlighten.

Now after reading Heretics of Dune, I can say that this book is by far the most interesting, worthwhile read since the original book. You have characters which are human enough to sympathize with, but also strong enough to consider 'heroic', the intrigue is less political and becomes more of a war between 'species', plenty of action to keep one excited at what happens next, and finally some interesting and eye-opening information on the Tleilaxu. Thankfully the Guild and the Ixians were for the most part left out of the book, as previous attempts to pull interest in their direction failed utterly.

So does it equal the original Dune? No, it doesn't. However, it's about as good a sequel as you can get, the spirit of the book remaining true to expectations set by the original, even if almost all of the characters are brand new. To those who are disappointed by Dune Messiah, Children of Dune or God Emperor of Dune, I encourage you to at least make your way to this book, as it delivers what a sequel should deliver- an exciting return to an intriguing world.

Heretics of Dune continues the saga of the Dune Chronicles, after some 1500 years have passed since God Emperor of Dune's story. We meet several new characters with a new Duncan Idaho ghola bringing a familiar face to the crowd. Another Duncan you ask?! Well yes, and at first I was somewhat dismayed, but in truth his innocent eyes allow the reader a good insight into the story, and Duncan becomes quite interesting as the book progresses.

However, there are other stars of this story. Characters are at the center here, set to a complex scheme in the same flavor as Dune Messiah and Gode Emperor of Dune. My favorite character is Miles Teg, military mastermind, strong-willed father figure, and living weapon. At first he seems to be in the background, but as your interest in him grows, so does his role. Strong characters are the hallmark of this book, and the momentum, as usual, starts slow but builds to a crescendo.

If you've read books 1-4 in the Dune series, the don't stop, check this one out :)

As the 5th book in the original Dune series, this was the worst. It takes place over a thousand years after Leto II: The Tyrant is destroyed. There is a girl named Sheeana who is able to control a worm on Rakis (formerly Arrakis). Another Duncan Idaho ghola has been made as well. The Atreides line has continued from Ghanima's line & many are Bene Geserits and more. Miles Teg, the mentat Bashar has been told to train Duncan so his memories can come about. The entire book is about mating him with various characters. There was even a two page long sex scene which I wish were not included in this. The entire book is about using sex as a way to control, in fact it dawned on me with this book that the worm represents a phallic and whoever controls the worm & spice is a god and is in control. It actually is a frightening idea and very horrible. I couldn't stand this book with the overuse of the d word and the story which went on and on going nowhere which bored me! How is this my husband's favorite book series??

I bought this book along with Chapterhouse: Dune (which I have just started) mainly in order to finish the series. Dune itself had disappointed me initially - it is hard for a book to live up to a blurb like "Dune is the finest, most widely acclaimed science fiction novel of this century. Huge in scope, towering in concept, it is a work which will live in the reader's imagination for the rest of his life"! However, I enjoyed it more on later, more careful readings. I was somewhat depressed by Dune Messiah but thoroughly enjoyed Children of Dune, which made more sense (maybe I was just older and wiser when I came to read it). Then came God Emperor of Dune. Oh dear. The main problem with this book was that I couldn't understand why anyone did what they did. I couldn't fathom what this big universal plan for the future of humanity was and what had happened to it at the end - not knowing, of course, that much of what had happened was part of the plan, which was still going on! In Heretics of Dune, the Dune series acquires a new set of bad guys, or rather girls, in the form of the Honoured Matres. However, the familiar ingredients are all in place - everyone double and triple-crosses everyone else, surprises come thick and fast and the underlying scheme is unseen until the end. As in Children of Dune, a slow-burning beginning filled with much scheming, confusion and philosophising suddenly leads to a whirlwind, shocking ending which I doubt I could have expected without reading the back of Chapterhouse (tip: don't buy Chapterhouse until you finish Heretics!). I feel that it is the characters who make each Dune story work or otherwise. In God Emperor, for example, the characters' motivations are hard to see - they do things which make no sense with no explanation. In Heretics, on the other hand, the characters' backgrounds are fleshed out by their remembrances, which helps to make their actions seem more sensible. Chapterhouse awaits, and no doubt all will be revealed.......or, more probably, not.

I"m starting to lose interest in this series. Thousands of years have past. The Bene Gesserit are now the most powerful force. Artificial spice makes Arrakis irrelevant. A new threat from the outside. Plots within plots within plots are getting too hard to follow and uninteresting.
Human nature appears completely unchanged in the struggle for power.
It is getting tedious.

This book is good to read. I enjoyed reading it, but now, looking back, I'm not sure why. Because, once you finish the second trilogy, you realise that Heretics Of Dune is actually just a long, long run up to the final book.
But even so, a lot happens here, and now, not having any Atreides from the initial Dune nuclear family to follow, we see the universe from the Bene Gesserit point of view. And something strange happens. We begin to like them.
Up until now the Bene Gesserit have been a hindrance or a nuisance. They even tried to have Paul Atreides killed off more than once in the first trilogy. But now, after the Tyrant Leto's lesson, they are a changing people. And they are a sisterhood fighting to stay in touch, for Leto's universal shake-up caused a mingling of humanity that has resulted in a band of fearsome women called Honoured Matres. And the Honoured Matres don't have anything but digust for the Bene Gesserit.
And so begins a plot to... do something. For all the way along we are kept as confused as the main characters. Only the Bene Gesserit's Mother Superior knows what the final objective is, and she's not telling anyone anything they don't need to know. Even the people executing her plan don't know what it is they're ultimately aiming for, and this does add to the intrigue.
This is a great book, despite it becoming so obvious that the real ending will be found within the next book: Chapterhouse Dune. Although Chapterhouse would make little sense without first reading Heretics Of Dune - so read it.

although i enjoyed it, i enjoyed it mostly because I was fascinated by Frank Herbert's creative imagination and wanted to see what his construct of a "Dune" universe would lead to. There was a fair amount of his political/religious theory in the book and none of the characters were as striking as those in Dune, Dune Messiah and Children of Dune. So if you're a Dune afficiando, you would get more out of this book, but I would not recommend it as a stand alone book.

...This book is, in my view, in a tie with the first Dune book for first place.
It is an entirely new universe since the death of the Tyrant Leto II. The lost children are returning from the Scattering and the Famine Times, and humanity is slowly waking up again....
There is a newness to this volume; there is action; there is great science fiction; there are fantastic plot and character developments; and last, but not least, there are many twists and turns followed by a spellbinding finale - thus, a fabulous sequel to a most challenging and "non-action"-oriented Book4. You will remember why you love the Dune worlds and their author, and thereby will be prepared for the Grand Mother of all Dune books, Chapterhouse:Dune (6), which I have reviewed elsewhere.
Cheers!

The progression went like this. First we had the great Dune, then the lame Dune Messiah, then the slightly better Children of Dune.
And God Emperor of Dune was the worst of the series.
Some claim that from there, the series became just a bunch of philosophical rants. Well, this is true for God Emperor, but if ANYONE tries to say this about Heretics, I'll tell them to actually READ the book, THEN say that! There is about as much philosophy here as there was in the first Dune... theres some every once in awhile, but usually its used meaningfully in a discussion, and besides doesn't happen often anyway.
Heres another new one: the Characters' personality traits are ESTABLISHED, for once! No more random personality-changes! Herbert actually seemed to of planned this one! In fact, there was only one, ONLY ONE, event in the whole book that seemed like random conjecture... Near the end when Teg, by coincidence, meets alot of old military comrades who are extremely loyal to the point that they overlook that they retired and come under his command again.
Also, the Tleilaxu, which were simply plot devices in the earlier books, actually have some IMPORTANCE, and their Axlotl tanks are part of a sub-plot.
This book ain't quite perfect though. One, The Bene Gesserit have a new enemy to worry about... the Honored Matres, who conquer by being seductive. What's the problem? Teg, Lucille, and some other chaarcters alone manage to defeat a good amount of them... and rather easily. The Matres don't seem like much of an enemy to me.
Also, all the chaarcters except Duncan Idaho are all-new. However some of them seem more like resurrections of older characters than anything else (Miles Teg=Paul Atreides). I personally thought this book would have been alot better if, instead of taking place a millenia later, We were still on ARrakis follwing Paul, not the after-effects of the faceless drone known as Leto II.
Another thing I hate is the renaming of all the planets and cities. Arrakis is now Rakis, Caladan is now Dan. Giedi Prime is now Gammu, Arrakeen is now Keen. What the hell is up with this? This is explained in a one-liner: "Time tends to shorten titles" oh please. Colorado is Colorado, you don't see it shortened to "Rado" do you?
But anyway, none of these flaws are big enough to really lower it down to Dune Messiah level (Two Stars) or God Emperor level (One star). They do, however, keep it from being perfect.
Read the first one, get a Dune fan to sum up Messiah, Children, and God Emperor for you (Actually I could do all three right now) and skip to Heretics.
Now, I really must get through with Chapterhouse....

The Dune series final volume - of those written by Frank Herbert himself.

a Great Classic if you like the Genre.
Public summary (no spoilers)
"Fifteen hundred years have passed since the 3,500-year reign of the God Emperor Leto Atreides II ended with his assassination; humanity is firmly on the Golden Path, Leto's plan to save humanity from destruction. By crushing the aspirations of humans for over three thousand years, Leto caused the Scattering, an explosion of humanity into the rest of the universe upon his death. Now, some of those who went out into the universe are coming back, bent on conquest. Only the Bene Gesserit perceive the Golden Path and are therefore faced with a choice: keep to their traditional role of hidden manipulators who quietly ease tensions and guide human progress while struggling for their own survival, or embrace the Golden Path and push humanity onward into a new future where humans are free from the threat of extinction."

I've loved Frank Herbert for years. Even after 20 years, this book continues to inspire, grow, and exercise the mind.

Herbert's stye and story development within these pages, as with all his works, relentlessly forces readers to observe current events, question government, and assess the situational condition of our social, political, and religious environments.

Whether you're immersing yourself into this series as a newcomer or as a returning reader, the Dune series continues to encourage critical thinking at its most rigorous.

All praise aside, Frank Herbert continues to lead us down the path of self-awareness. Therefore expanding our perception of today's social issues.

A must read for all sci-fi fans, social analysts, philosophers, and political cynics alike.

ive always felt that frank herbert was a pretty bad write, yet the dune universe is so fascinating and unique that his dune books are still worth it (i feel very similar about HP lovecraft by the way...)

i must say that i felt this one to be just a huge waste of time though, and it definitely did not make me want to read part 6. dune 5 takes place thousands of years into the future from the first four books, which doesnt matter since nothing has changed really, which makes it really tedious if you ve read the other books recently. its too bad that herbert didnt use the chance of the huge leap in time to introduce some new concepts into the series, instead its just the usual raving about breeding programs and deception, nothing you dont know from the other books already...

the reader is as much left in the dark about the whole point of anything as any of the characters in the story, which are all pretty opaque and unlikeable anyways. the end is another letdown, after the book finally takes up some pace towards the end there is no real conclusion... i guess i would have to read the last part of the series for it to make any sense, but im not sure i will invest my time in that...

I'm of the opinion that Herbert got bored with his first draft of Heritics and decided to give it a little more kick. Though none of the stories hold anything back, this particular novel was saturated with sex and talk of it. Though sex played a major part in the plot it was surrprising for the relativly clean series. It's still a great story, with Duncan Idaho appearing yet again, Sisterhood affairs, and best of all, the Bene Tleilax! Yes, after four novels many secrets of the enigmatic race are exposed (though there are plenty more to be answered.) If you've been wondering about the race, you must read the book. I won't give anything away (axlotl tanks) about the Tleilax (religious fanatics) so don't worry about that. :-)

This book, when I first read it, was for me like one of those times in our lives when a lightbulb goes off and things all seem to click. This book was one of the principle reasons for me joining the Army and later wanting to get my masters degree in cultural anthropology (namely conflict anthropology) as it gave me a completely new way of approaching issues of conflict in the world, namely today, how to approach and solve the issue of Islamic terrorism.

The way in which this book shows how religion is tied in with economics, politics, sex, military power, psychology, sociology, culture, and fundamental human emotions is just staggering. More importantly it shows how all the masses are manipulated once the "Key Logs", (as the warrior-mentat "Miles Teg" puts it), are identified and manipulated, be they religious symbols, rituals, economic matters, or the application of extreme violence through the use of military power.

From a purely military perspective, this book is also a delicious insight into the military mind and how leadership works in the military (as well as in other forums). These include such aspects as physical presence, command voice control, the illusion of morale superiority, the warrior-philosopher ethos, scape-goating, and complex tactical aspects of warfare such as the usage of decoys and plans within plans as reflected in the Bashar's motto: "Expect the Unexpected".

With all that said, this is not a book for everyone. For those of you who have little interest in theology, psychology, military tactics, and philosophy, you may find this book to be boring and not something you can relate to. But for those of you who love studying religion, human culture, military theory, psychology, and just want a raw and extremely rich sci-fi experience that is both romantic and deeply insightful into human nature (akin to Star Trek in that aspect), then I would HIGHLY recommend to you this book. It may change your life as it did mine.

1500 years after Leto II the God Emperor completed his transformation into the sandworm, he is reviled and worshiped throughout the universe... But now the men and women who ran to escape his tyrany are returning to Dune seeking to rule that which once ruled them...

And, other then the whole "Honoured Matres control men with sex" and "The Duncan Idaho ghola is a male Honoured Matre," the book is fairly good. despite minor shark jumping.

5 years ago I plowed through the 6 Dune books and I seem to remember book 5 (Heretics) as the hardest book to finish. The second time through though I was very surprised to find out that this book is one of my favorites in the series. Unfortunately, it says something that after 5 years of staying away from Dune, I completely forgot the plot of this book so it was like reading it for the first time again.
Things I liked about this book: More of a perspective from the Bene Gesserit and the Bene Tliexu (hope I spelled those right). The first 4 books are generally written from the point of view of Paul or the preachy Leto, so this was a great change of pace. Miles Teg is a great character as well.
Things I did not like about this book: Seems like between book 4 and book 5 EVERY planet and major city was re-named. Adds to some confusion and really doesn't add to the story at all. Duncan gholas are getting old. Too much emphasis on breeding programs, but hey, I didn't write the book. Honored Matres are underdeveloped characters in this book.
A good read nonetheless, come back to it later if you don't like it the first time...
Josh

Heretics of Dune is the 5th title in the Dune series and takes place several thousand years after the events of God Emperor of Dune. It takes as its protagonists several members of the Bene Gesserit as they confront the Bene Tleilax and the Honored Matres- a religous order from the Scattering that took place after the death of Leto II .
Herbert's writing continues to improve, and this is the most accessible book yet in the series, although it still not an easy read.

I bought the entire collection of Frank's Dune books and sat and read them back to back while on vacation. I must say that it started off slowly, but about a quarter of the way in the story took off and I could not put it down. The Dune series, while I claim it to be one of my favorites, has kept me interested from the first book and on into Brian and Kevin's books about Dune.

So often writers get stuck in their own universe to the point that each story is the same. Herbert himself started to fall into that trap.. but takes a big break away with this one. Set long after the LetoII demise.. ?? the book takes the series in a new direction. We finally get to truly get into the famed Bene Gesserit's mind/community. Still lots of philosophy.. which to me is as facinating as the action is... and there's more than in God Emporer.

Heretics of Dune is a much better story than book 4 in the Dune series, but not as good as the first two. The quality of the storyline is comparable to Children of Dune, book 3, which is pretty good. Heretics of Dune is it's own unique storyline unlike anything written in the first 4 novels, and is one of the best books I've ever read. The story focuses on Duncan Idaho, and Frank Herbert shows why he is considered to be the greatest military mind/soldier in the universe, and a trump card for a decimated House Attreides. This is a MUST READ for all who love Dune, Duncan Idaho, or Frank Herbert!
[...]

This book is quite phenomenal although it isn't quite up to the original Dune. That figures because Dune came in with a whole mess of new ideas and concepts. However, Heretics of Dune does possess new conflicts and characters that provide a new realm of imagination. The Bene Gesserit are dissected to reveal a couple secrets that could be exploited by the Bene Theilax or Honored Matres. The Matres presented a new challenge that was strong in numbers but not in control. I find the characterization a bit mysterious but that helped to kill empathy. All in all, Heretics was an achievement of science fiction yet couldn't live up to its name.

If you wanted closer you won't find it here instead you'll be left aching for more and you'll rush right out to buy the last book in the serious. I found this book to be a noticable departure from the 4 that came before, but it's a good departure with new themes and new characters you can truely see how the years of the Leto II and the years acted truely reshaped the universe and the main factions in it.

I first read Heretics of Dune when it was released in '84 and have so enjoyed going back and reading it again.
Time has passed since Leto's passing. His pearls of self remain in the worms that once again inhabit Arrakis (Rakis). A new cast of characters, and an old friend in Duncan Idaho populate this new story that sets the stage for the last book in the Dune series.
The time that's passed between this first time I read this story and the present, it doesn't diminish my enjoyment in returning to Dune.

Frank really deals a twist to his epic in this story. I enjoyed the overall complications of dismantling and yet upholding the society notion of a savior. This combined with the politics being religion (go figure where he got that idea from) really breaks the series open to where the reader has to find new ground to stand on because the author rips it out from under you by the end.

This one took a little to get into since it's set 1500 years since there are no familiar characters, until Duncan is introduced, but best character introduced is Miles Teg, he reminds me of Paul Atreides, but this is almost as good as Dune, and lets us understand more of the Bene Gesserit, and their fight from the honored mantres. Good read, highly recomend this entry into the series.

This book is not an easy read, it is very rich with philosophy, political intrigue and such.

It is a little hard to follow at times, but nevertheless it is a must read, especially if you are going to continue the Dune saga.

Even if this sort of book isn't your preference, Frank Herbert had a vision, it would be foolish to not follow it throughly.

....and the heretical author for writing such a thoughtful and yet exciting adventure tale unfolded by characters like the admirable Miles Teg, the Mentat Bashar who becomes the Sisterhood's eyes, ears, and (above all) heart... (and I'm glad they sort of resurrected in Teg the original Duke Leto, who really got the short end in DUNE).

Very enjoyable story. This is my second time around, after reading all other available sequels and prequels written by Frank Herbert's son, and I am finding the original books so much more enjoyable, understanding the backstories, characters, and different factions in his universe.

God Emperor was the start of a new direction in Dune, breaking completely away from the original into a new style. Unfortunately it was slow getting started. Heretics finally gets it moving at warp speed, and while still not the original Dune by any means, it's a wonderful book.

Probably not, but considering that this is part of the Dune series, you expect a little more. Instead, you get a LOT less...
I should have stayed away after God Emperor of Dune (the whiny lead character, constantly spouting poor-man's philosophy, the insane addiction to Duncan Idaho, a lesser character in the saga preceding it, the ridiculous ending), but I stayed the course. I tried to read this book so many times, but I never was able to finish it. Finally, after a year and a half, I did. How boring can you get? And what a STUPID premise!! The Honored Matres? Are you kidding? The Jews? What was the point of the Orange Catholic Bible? I did enjoy the elaboration on the Tleilaxu, but that's about it. The breeding program was bordering on ridiculous in this book (10000 years and they still haven't gotten anywhere?), and the battle between the Bene Gesserit and the (ugh) Honored Matres is just ridiculous. Although Chapterhouse is a LITTLE bit better, I would advise reading the new additions by Brian Herbert (hey, they're not as well written, but they are FAR more entertaining). Better yet, just stick with the original trilogy.

Very enjoyable story. This is my second time around, after reading all other available sequels and prequels written by Frank Herbert's son, and I am finding the original books so much more enjoyable, understanding the backstories, characters, and different factions in his universe.

God Emperor was the start of a new direction in Dune, breaking completely away from the original into a new style. Unfortunately it was slow getting started. Heretics finally gets it moving at warp speed, and while still not the original Dune by any means, it's a wonderful book.

Probably not, but considering that this is part of the Dune series, you expect a little more. Instead, you get a LOT less...
I should have stayed away after God Emperor of Dune (the whiny lead character, constantly spouting poor-man's philosophy, the insane addiction to Duncan Idaho, a lesser character in the saga preceding it, the ridiculous ending), but I stayed the course. I tried to read this book so many times, but I never was able to finish it. Finally, after a year and a half, I did. How boring can you get? And what a STUPID premise!! The Honored Matres? Are you kidding? The Jews? What was the point of the Orange Catholic Bible? I did enjoy the elaboration on the Tleilaxu, but that's about it. The breeding program was bordering on ridiculous in this book (10000 years and they still haven't gotten anywhere?), and the battle between the Bene Gesserit and the (ugh) Honored Matres is just ridiculous. Although Chapterhouse is a LITTLE bit better, I would advise reading the new additions by Brian Herbert (hey, they're not as well written, but they are FAR more entertaining). Better yet, just stick with the original trilogy.

The originals by dad are so much better. Yes they're slower, but I like the longer detailed descriptions of settings, situations, philosophy and history that he's so good at. And then Wham... Comes the action. He's the best. This book has my favorite scenes. The Tleilaxu meetings, discovery of the no- globe for hiding away, Teg's transformation to berserker mode and of coarse Duncan's sexual collision with Murbella. I've read it probably 10 times over the last couple decades. Edges out the next in series slightly for me.

I've been following the Dune Saga for some years now. The first book, "Dune", was by far the best of them all. Frank Herbert introduced us to the intrigueing world of great families fighting on a small but crucial planet called Dune, home of the spice.
When I finished "Dune" I couldn't wait to see what would happen to Paul Atreides "Muad'Dib", Chani, etc. Unfortunately, "Dune Messiah" was so disappointing. It seemed as if the author, run out of ideas, wished to "kill" Paul as quickly as possible. And so he did. "The Children of Dune" was enjoyable and "God Emperor of Dune" was by far the worst of the Saga.
However, despite the fourth one, I decided to read "Heretics of Dune". Now that I finished it, I must say that this book is almost as good as the first one. Thousands of years have passed since the death of Leto II and the humanity must cope with the consequences of the "Big Dispersion". All the characters in this book are new, which is a good point. This time, the author chose to focus on the Bene Gesserit Order. The description of the order is much more interesting and deeper than in the previous books. Soon we, the readers, discover that the Bene Gesserit are facing a new enemy, the Honoured Matres, who are in fact a branch of the BG that came back from the "Big Dispersion". The conflicts between the two of them and the plot are highly intrigueing, thus contributing to make this book a real page turner. It is a real fun to read about Rakis, where each corner is carring the memory of the Baron, Jessica, Paul and his children. Another good point is the arrival of a new character, Miles Teg, the Bashar of the Bene Gesserit. Herbert largely describes the old Teg: his thoughts, feelings, victories and loyalty to the order of the BG. While reading about Teg, I had the feeling that the author wanted to compensate his failure with "Dune Messiah". Teg is the image of Paul: a warrior, a lover and a father, who grew old and now has to face many inner conflicts, that each one of us has to face when our life is about to end.
As a matter of conclusion, I would say this book is very good. It has got all the usual stuff: action,love, friendship, philosophy, interesting characters and so on. Pity that it does not come right after "Dune". I can assure you that you can start with "Dune" and skip right to "Heretics of Dune". Trust me. The three previous ones are not as good and you won't miss a thing!

I guess it had to happen at some time. Rarely does an author leave us on a high note in sequals, and in this case this was unfortunately true. I was suprised to see that this book had a better review than the fourth. It seemed the author desperately tried to link this book with the past ones by constantly reminding us of the dead characters but to no avail.

Being a huge fan of the first book DUNE I was surprised to find that I enjoyed this book as much as I did. Everything familar to the DUNE universe has changed with time, as things always do, yet enough of the familiar remains to tie in the new characters into overall storyline. I found the charaters in "Heretics" to be every bit as deep and complex as those found in the original DUNE, and I thoroghly enjoyed getting to know them as much as I did those of the old Empire, especially Dar. The story has a great pace and the book was a blast to read.

First of all, I've read many of the above reviews, and the general consensus appears to be that Dune was great, Messiah drooled, Children left you cold, and God Emperor should be ignored or better yet forgotten. Heretics on the other hand got some glowing reviews, as it should, since, even in my opinion, it is probably the better of the five books, excluding only Dune, which ruled on a scope that has not yet been passed by any other book in any other sci-fi series, and Chapterhouse, which I felt ended the series, if not pleasantly, than at least satisfactorily. Now, I'm going to explain why none of the books should be skipped or viewed as less than awesome. Point number one: Frank Herbert wrote them. Need I go on? I don't care how poorly contrived Messiah was, or how out of place God Emperor appeared, Herbert had a vision, and we're just along for the ride. For any of you to even consider that you could effectively and correctly critique the grand master of modern science fiction is preposterous! The books were meant to flow, and I believe they did. And as for philosophical ranting, please! I'm open to views other than my own, especially views emanating from such an ingenious and wonderfully imaginative author as Frank Herbert himself! Anything associated with Dune, and that includes the new books coming out (Yay!), should be read and hopefully appreciated, and if you didn't like it the first time, read it again, or just do something else! Now, while you digest that, I think I'm going to read the whole series again, merely for the pure enjoyment of it...

"Heretics of Dune" is a fascinating books. It has action, it has new terms of the dune universe and new ideas. But, it has no decent plot. Comparing to Dune, it has no plot. This may not be the book you should start with when reading the dune saga, but if you're familiar with Frank Herbert's Dune you would more than enjoy reading it.

Struggled many times to pick this book up, almost to no avail. Hate reading about just the Sisterhood. The priests on Rakkis are lame, too. Finally finished it, forgot about it immediately. Not sure why he wrote it. Oh well, at leasts it's Dune, right? Three stars because of good writing, but boring boring boooooring.

I was not able to finish this book. I love the Dune series up to this point. And I still think Frank Herbert was a brilliant writer. I'm just not sure what he was going for here. I absolutely loved God Emperor of Dune. I thought that book was exceptionally well written. I really liked the characters in that novel. Especially Hwi Noree and Siona. Not to mention Leto II himself. That's why I was so dissapointed with Heretics. The way God Emperor ended was a perfect ending for this series. To explore the effects of The Scattering may have seemed like a good idea. But it's just too far away from what Dune was originally all about. And it's just not that interesting.

This is the first book of the series that I have read, and it is also the best of the series. It is one of the only books that I have read in the past 3 years that I would even consider re-reading, and I dont like books. LOL. Enjoy, lord knows I did.