Joe Steele

I’ve been a Turtledove fan for about thirty years. Some of the WWI & WWII alternate stories seem to get bogged down in the day to day affairs of the Army personnel. A lot of Turtledove seems to be a rehashing of older plots and tropes. The constant foxhole tropes and the Turtledove Formulaic Doctrine, have left me to consider that the things that appealed to me three decades ago are waning in recent years. I’ve found myself enjoying Turtledove’s non-war stories more so than the war stories. It could be that I’m just warred out.

Although Joe Steele does have a foxhole war in the last 25% or so, war isn’t the primary focus of this story. I would place Joe Steele on par with the Supervolcano series, and the first two books in the Atlantis series.

No one could ever accuse Turtledove of not doing the research for an alternate history. Joe Steele is no exception. Everything that happens in the story is plausible within the confines of this speculative piece. Turtledove is still the master of alternate history.

Joe Steele is touted as a stand-alone, and I can see another installment, especially with the trick ending. I’d read a sequel to Joe Steele, and as always, I’d read just about any fiction Harry Turtledove puts out. As far as storytelling, Joe Steele doesn’t wow me the way Guns of the South or Opening Atlantis did. It’s a solid four-star read, especially for people who enjoy alternate history, or are already Turtledove fans.

I (semi-jokingly) think many high-output writers produce so many works by use of a magic writing algorithm. The writer's style, tone and outlook are plugged in, and out come novels. Stephen King's algorithm is great, for example, as his books are almost always extremely fun and engaging; Tom Clancy's algorithm was pretty good until he died, but now it's a mess.

That imaginary entity explained, Harry Turtledove's algorithm could use some work. I've read several of his novels, and have generally found each book's premise to be fascinating, but getting through the writing itself is always a slog. His characters all share a weird speech pattern, whereby it is necessary to positively reiterate just about every statement they make to one another. "Wish I could say you're a liar. Wish I could, but I can't" is a clumsy example. This endlessly repeated conversational padding, if removed entirely from Mr. Turtledove's novels, would make them all into short stories...which may be the reason it's there in the first place!

However. I did enjoy Joe Steele, despite the necessity of wading through the usual swamp of Turtledovian conversational excess. While one can always quibble about details (it seemed strange to me, for instance, that the course of the Second World War in this story was virtually the same as in our reality, aside from the issue with the atom bomb...particularly after Joe Steele gutted the army following an assassination attempt), the scope of the story absolutely swept me up. The protagonists were interesting despite their standard Turtledovian speech patterns, and I was eager to find out what would happen upon Joe Steele's death.

The bottom line is that, if you enjoy alternate American history, you can't ignore Harry Turtledove. His algorithm is obviously working fine for him, as he remains one of the top figures in this genre. But it's never too late to tweak that algorithm, Harry.

This is an at times interesting, at times maddening book with the alternate scenario of what would happen had Stalin (Joe Steele) might have become an American politician. This is a book rich in irony. Various historical elements are recast and put to use in sometimes humorous effects. Turtledove keeps the dull rhetoric of Stalin and employs it on occasions where FDR rose to eloquence. The book though, somewhat unimaginatively, assumes that certain things would happen regardless of who was president, FDR or Joe Steele. John Gardner hangs on as Vice President until his 80s. Some members of the establishment serve with "Joe Steele" despite a certain likely reticence to participate in a Stalinist take on US politics (arresting and shooting Supreme Court judges for instance). The waging of WW II is something that Turtledove takes for granted as occurring as though FDR's wise leadership was inevitable. Joe Steele as an American dictator would be far more reckless and make mistakes FDR would never have done. It might have been entertaining to have Joe Steele insist on winning the naval war with battleships, something Stalin insisted was still viable into the 1950s. There are entertaining moments. MacArthur is shoot for screwing up the defense of the Philippines and compares himself to Christ as he is led off. Perineal candidate for the presidency, Harold Stassen runs against Joe Steele in one election, finally achieving the nomination. Trotsky is the leader of the Soviet Union. Steele's last words mimic Roosevelt's. Nixon is the deputy head of the secret police. There are some real mistakes. There is no way Trotsky would have picked Yagoda to be head of the KGB. It is not clear that the US would be the post war world economic leader with a leader like Joe Steele. Carter Glass did not father an illegitimate child. Had a US president come to power and appointed as many Eastern Europeans as Steel does, the public would have had to have sold on the idea, as these people before WWII, would have been regarded as inferior to WASPs. This book is heavily influenced by Sinclair Lewis's "It Can't Happen Here" and "All the King's Men" by Robert Penn Warren) and certainly an interesting and quick read.

Joe Steele is Master of Alternate History Harry Turtledove’s imagining of what would have happened had Joseph Stalin’s parents immigrated to America. It devotes little (too little, I think) attention to his initial rise, starting with Stalin forces wrangling with those of FDR at the 1932 Democratic National Convention. Stalin, er, Steele takes the nomination after FDR dies in a suspicious mansion fire. From there we see the results of a very long presidency.

Turtledove makes the wise decision to tell his story entirely through two journalist brothers, one who gravitates to Steele’s inner circle and the other a dissident. The restricted perspective works. As two committed Democrats (a plausibility stretch for two journalists, I know), Charlie and Mike aren’t inclined to question Steele’s policies at first. We don’t (initially) see firsthand what happens in the work camps. Much of Steele’s machinations and heavy-handed policies start outside of the eyes of our characters—we only see the results.

It’s a scary story, and it’s only made more frightening by how similarly Steele’s administration starts to FDR’s. Steele too starts with a dramatic increase in central planning. Steele too runs up against the Supreme Court. He, however, takes a more direct route in response. Stalin, er, Steele, knows his Shakespeare and starts by, if not killing all of the lawyers, killing four on the Supreme Court.

It’s a well written story. There isn’t a lot of action, but Turtledove adroitly keeps the tension at a slow boil and the story pulls the reader along. The alternative WWII is particularly interesting, and what happens after Steele dies is even more compelling than what happens during his life. There’s a terror in what passes unsaid (such as what happens to the Supreme Court justices in custody). The brothers’ arcs complement each other magnificently. It has a killer final paragraph. For criticism, I have the usual differences of opinion as to how things would have gone and not enough is given to how Steele rose to where he was at the beginning of the book (the impediments to a Russian immigrant rising to national power would be high then and now).

Disclosure: I received a free copy of Joe Steele through NetGalley.

In many ways Joe Steele is a typical Turtledove alternate history, only darker. Joe's parents had moved from Georgia (Russia) to California (USA) before his birth. He grew up poor, but became a member of the House of Representatives and in 1932 runs for the Presidency of the US against Roosevelt. This is where the story opens and our protagonists, Charlie and Bill Sullivan come on stage. They are both reporters, but favoring different candidates in the election. After a tragic fire in Albany (NY), Steele is elected and history is slowly altered from our timeline. There is more violence, less respect for Constitutional law or human life. J. Edger Hoover has more power to play with under the supervision of Joe Steele. World War II comes along on schedule but with Omar Bradly leading in Europe and Dwight Eisenhower in the Pacific. No atomic weapons end the war, instead Operation Olympic is followed by Operation Cornet and the Russians under Trotsky capture the northern half of Japan. Joe Steele dies in the 1950's and the question is what happens next. Turtledove only provides a bit of Director Hoover's coup, but implies that there does not appear to be any light at the end of the tunnel with a knock on the door coming after midnight. A chilling end to the book where the details just creep up and make you glad that is is fiction.

"Joe Steele" is the English language equivalent of "Joseph Stalin."

This disturbing alternative history novel takes as its' starting point what might have happened if the family of Iosif Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili had emigrated to the US shortly before he was born, instead of staying in Georgia. (That's the Georgia which was then part of Russia.)

In this novel, instead of changing his name to Josef Stalin and becoming General Secretary of the Communist Party in Russia, he changes it to the English equivalent and stands to be President of the United States.

The story is seen from the viewpoint of two brothers, Charlie and Mike Sullivan, both journalists. One of the brothers tries to tell what he believes to be the truth about Joe Steele while the other tries to reach an accommodation with the Joe Steele juggernaut: each finds that both courses of action carry a very high price.

I describe the book as disturbing because most of us would like to believe that a mature democracy such at the USA could not fall under the sway of a man like Stalin. This novel reminds us that kind of complacency can be dangerous ...

One of the best of Turtledove's recent novels, I had trouble putting this book down.

This is really just a significantly worse version of "It can't happen here," right down to several of the scenes.
The book shoves in specific landmark moments like the Moscow trials whether or not they actually make sense, and then connects them together even if the causation is flawed. There are really so many changes from our timeline but no consequences stemming from them. Trotsky does everything that Stalin did in Russia, Joe hates Germany for no reason, he hates Trotsky for some unexplained reason (he doesn't like the Russian revolution?), Stalin kills generals but VE Day comes on time, the government is crushingly oppressive but the economy booms, America is a dictatorship but the post war western alliances are strong, there's so much that just seems half thought out for convenience. Its said multiple times that Russia is worse and people everywhere prefer America even with its dictatorship, but it's not explained why. Foreign policy doesn't change at all. It's like he wanted to make sure specific things happened so he ignored causation.
While the narrative is from the perspective of two brothers, it completely fails to capture any emotion at critical moments. One brother is literally being arrested in the night and there's just a description of him being booked and shipped off to a camp with no argument or inner monologue, it's bizarre. There are even foreshadowing moments that never come to pass.
This was such a good premise but if anything this book set out to show how limited the changes would actually be.

Joe Steele by Harry Turtledove

This is another alternate history by Turtledove. This history begins with FDR's first election and ends decades later. It is a dark, social look at totalitarian politics.

This is a tale of two brothers and how they fare in a society quite different from the one we have experienced. It takes the nation at a crux in our social development. The depression has kicked in and the nation is in a crisis. Franklin Delano Roosevelt is running for President. Joe Steele is a first generation American who has strong ideas for the country. Instead of FDR being elected, as in our history, Steele is elected. Steele takes the radical attitudes of a hard right politician and runs with them.

The story shows the interplay between the administration and the lives of the two Sullivan brothers both of whom are newspaper men. Charlie goes with the flow and Mike bucks the system. The results are the basis of the plot.

This is a dark and frightening look at how democracy can go awry.

The premise is interesting, Josef Stalin's parents emigrate to America so Josef Stalin is born in the US and becomes President.
Next, events in this US loosely follow the real-life events in the USSR. Roosevelt (Lenin) dies, Steele (Stalin) takes over, there are purges, show trials, enemies of the people, etc etc etc.
Thing is, how plausible is that, really? That being born in a different country, in a different culture, with different life-circumstances would have no effects on Josef Djugashvili, that he would grow up to still be the same.
I keep reading Mr. Turtledove's new works in the hopes that he will return to the Turtledove of Guns of the South, TL-191 and Basil Argyros. All in all, this is C-grade work.

Interesting alternative history which replaces the main political figures of the FDR era with fictional and semi-fictional substitutes. Two brothers Mike and Charlie choose different paths and we learn at the end who was right and who was wrong. There is some romance as the brothers meet their wives. But the main emphasis of the novel is on "what if" situations where history is shaped by alternative players and a historical fiction aspect where we look into life during the Depression, war, and post-war periods. For me an interesting aspect was that my own novel "Democracy Society" evaluates some of the same history and visits some of the same locations although with a different tone and message. John Christmas.

While many reviewers have already said about this being more of a "Stalin" based character I have to admit I am seriously disappointed in Harry and not even coming up with barely an original thought for this novel. Joe Steele? Joseph Stalin (Stalin means steel in Russian) Killing of people right and left with nary a mummer of complaint? You can't go out and wholesale send people to firing squads, and work camps without anyone voicing a complaint. Highly unrealistic to say the least.
Almost all of the history went as did in real life with barely any ripple in difference. No A bomb, so invade Japan and instead of a N Korea and S Korea, N Japan and S Japan. Midway same battle and outcome, most if not all the Pacific battles (hard to tell as they are glossed over so quickly).
This book as a whole was a HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT and looks to be all bout the money and no real thought put into the book. The last 3 to 4 (including this one) has been going downhill in quality quickly and almost makes me look to library to save me money on buying the poor thought out books.
I have been Harry since the 80's and enjoyed most if not all his books, but the last few have me rethinking my enjoyment of his current works.

There is one implausible assumption behind the story that detracts from its success. Why do we assume that Joseph Stalin (Joe Steele) born in the USA would become a dictator though not as bloodthirsty as the Soviet Stalin? If we accept that premise then why doesn't Joe Steele follow in Joseph Stalin's failings and missteps. This America follows pretty much the same path in WWII as our time.

Still there are enough little nuggets to make the story likeable and entertaining. Admiral Kummel and General Short are executed for their failings at Pearl Harbour, likewise General MacArthur for the Philippines. Richard Nixon appears as an aggressive assistant Attorney General in the 1949-1953 Steele administration, though never named, the description gives you no doubts

I was kind of disappointed with this one. Turtledove's normally well thought out alternate histories make this novel seem forced and not given much thought. He basically takes Stalin's history of Russia and slaps Trotsky's name over Stalin. The notion that Leon Trotsky would do the exact same thing as Stalin seems silly. The Russians technology boom seems far fetched seeing how they stole the technology from us in reality. The ending was confusing, I'm not sure what happened. Somehow the speaker of the house was removed from the line of succession??? Mr. Turtledove, you can do better.

Maybe it was changing his style from panoramic views of many characters to focusing on only 2 but this is his first real failure at alternate history.
One major problem is having all events of WWII involving other countries take place exactly as they really did. Why he thinks Trotsky would have acted exactly like Stalin is beyond comprehension. But he also doesn't explain it -- did Trotsky kill off his military leaders? If not, the Soviet army would have been much more effective earlier. In fact, Hitler would probably have been less likely to attack the Soviets with England still in the War.
Let's assume Stalin's personality was the same growing up in the US as it was in Georgia (only for the sake of argument, I don't believe it for a second). How did he reach the point where he was a serious contender for President? Did he play by the rules? Then where did his gangster organization come from to professionally set the fire so that it couldn't be determined if it was arson? If not, where was the press? Huey Long could control much in Louisiana, Joe Steele would not be able to dominate California the same way.
I kept wanting to get inside Steele's head as events unfolded. I really expected the book to show an idealistic Steele turning into Stalin as events led him into becoming a dictator.
Finally, while J. Edgar Hoover could conceivably have been a nasty head of the secret police his homosexuality in the 30's and 40's must have molded his character yet Turtledove ignores it. After so many wonderful alternate histories I'm sorry to be wishing I had the money and time back that I wasted on this book. Hopefully the nuclear war one will be better but I won't buy it the day it comes out.

Turtledove did a great job of imagining Joe Stalin as a Californian - an immigrant's son who entered politics. But keeping Stalin's morals (or lack thereof) and drive for power and control. An interesting imagining, if not especially believable...and that's something to be grateful for. If you like fun alt/historical of Mr. Turtledove's brand, you'll love this one too.

To my knowledge, I have read every Turtledove alternate history, most of them in hardbound. Sadly, this novel is a failure. Turtledove is always surprising the reader with twists and turns that can't be foreseen. And, is well noted for ruthlessly killing of major characters! But with an American born Stalin, and with Trotsky ruling the USSR, WWII is pretty much exactly like our history. Only in 1945 does history suddenly radically change, because there was no FDR to push the A-Bomb project.... A major part of the problem is that there are only 2 viewpoints, a brother who works for Steele, And, one who can;t keep quiet, thereby ending up in a prison camp. From little we find out, Steele didn't have to use mass terror, The general public quickly learns to shut up. Exactly how Steele's repression works, is very unclear. I have been telling family members for years, that " The Man With the Iron Heart " was the weakest Turtledove novel. But now that is not true, Iron Heart is a very good, if totally unrealistic novel....

One thing to consider, in our history, over 100,000 Japanese Americans were put into prison of war camps. A stain on the history of California, that will always remain. Joe Steele just thought bigger...

I have high hopes for the latest Turtledove novel, " Bombs Away ". It sounds very interesting. Get it from the store in Mid-July!

I have high hopes

There is one implausible assumption behind the story that detracts from its success. Why do we assume that Joseph Stalin (Joe Steele) born in the USA would become a dictator though not as bloodthirsty as the Soviet Stalin? If we accept that premise then why doesn't Joe Steele follow in Joseph Stalin's failings and missteps. This America follows pretty much the same path in WWII as our time.

Still there are enough little nuggets to make the story likeable and entertaining. Admiral Kummel and General Short are executed for their failings at Pearl Harbour, likewise General MacArthur for the Philippines. Richard Nixon appears as an aggressive assistant Attorney General in the 1949-1953 Steele administration, though never named, the description gives you no doubts

I was kind of disappointed with this one. Turtledove's normally well thought out alternate histories make this novel seem forced and not given much thought. He basically takes Stalin's history of Russia and slaps Trotsky's name over Stalin. The notion that Leon Trotsky would do the exact same thing as Stalin seems silly. The Russians technology boom seems far fetched seeing how they stole the technology from us in reality. The ending was confusing, I'm not sure what happened. Somehow the speaker of the house was removed from the line of succession??? Mr. Turtledove, you can do better.

Maybe it was changing his style from panoramic views of many characters to focusing on only 2 but this is his first real failure at alternate history.
One major problem is having all events of WWII involving other countries take place exactly as they really did. Why he thinks Trotsky would have acted exactly like Stalin is beyond comprehension. But he also doesn't explain it -- did Trotsky kill off his military leaders? If not, the Soviet army would have been much more effective earlier. In fact, Hitler would probably have been less likely to attack the Soviets with England still in the War.
Let's assume Stalin's personality was the same growing up in the US as it was in Georgia (only for the sake of argument, I don't believe it for a second). How did he reach the point where he was a serious contender for President? Did he play by the rules? Then where did his gangster organization come from to professionally set the fire so that it couldn't be determined if it was arson? If not, where was the press? Huey Long could control much in Louisiana, Joe Steele would not be able to dominate California the same way.
I kept wanting to get inside Steele's head as events unfolded. I really expected the book to show an idealistic Steele turning into Stalin as events led him into becoming a dictator.
Finally, while J. Edgar Hoover could conceivably have been a nasty head of the secret police his homosexuality in the 30's and 40's must have molded his character yet Turtledove ignores it. After so many wonderful alternate histories I'm sorry to be wishing I had the money and time back that I wasted on this book. Hopefully the nuclear war one will be better but I won't buy it the day it comes out.

Turtledove did a great job of imagining Joe Stalin as a Californian - an immigrant's son who entered politics. But keeping Stalin's morals (or lack thereof) and drive for power and control. An interesting imagining, if not especially believable...and that's something to be grateful for. If you like fun alt/historical of Mr. Turtledove's brand, you'll love this one too.

To my knowledge, I have read every Turtledove alternate history, most of them in hardbound. Sadly, this novel is a failure. Turtledove is always surprising the reader with twists and turns that can't be foreseen. And, is well noted for ruthlessly killing of major characters! But with an American born Stalin, and with Trotsky ruling the USSR, WWII is pretty much exactly like our history. Only in 1945 does history suddenly radically change, because there was no FDR to push the A-Bomb project.... A major part of the problem is that there are only 2 viewpoints, a brother who works for Steele, And, one who can;t keep quiet, thereby ending up in a prison camp. From little we find out, Steele didn't have to use mass terror, The general public quickly learns to shut up. Exactly how Steele's repression works, is very unclear. I have been telling family members for years, that " The Man With the Iron Heart " was the weakest Turtledove novel. But now that is not true, Iron Heart is a very good, if totally unrealistic novel....

One thing to consider, in our history, over 100,000 Japanese Americans were put into prison of war camps. A stain on the history of California, that will always remain. Joe Steele just thought bigger...

I have high hopes for the latest Turtledove novel, " Bombs Away ". It sounds very interesting. Get it from the store in Mid-July!

I have high hopes

Overall it was the basic Turtledove book and plot; what was entertaining and scary was reading as the Constitution vanished for the sake of recovery from the Depression. "Desperate times call for desperate measure" was the recurring theme it did show why the Founding Fathers gave us e checks and balances in the Constitution.

What was scary was the idea of J. Edgar Hoover giving carte blanche to run roughshod over civil rights.

What if Joseph Stalin was a democratic senator from California? That is what Turtledove tackles in this novel. Turtledove is king of the alternate history genre and does a very interesting job spinning a world where everything changes because Stalin's parents decide to immigrate to California in the late 1800s (prior to Joseph being born). I very enjoyable read. If you like fictional history or history in general, this is a very good read.

...but, let's face it, Harry Turtldove has been churning out the same old same old for at least ten years now.

While Turledove's stories are sometimes fun to read, he hasn't been great for years. I guess this is what we get when a writer keeps churning it out because people are paying him to do so.

Just when you think that Harry Turtledove would never go there you find you were wrong! When I first saw the book's title I started giggling and thinking "Even Harry Turtledove doesn't have that twisted a sense of humor!" Well he does and it is a really interesting book! Read it or regret it!!!!!!!! I just read again and I had to put it down I was laugh too hard!!

I was disappointed in the ending. I read science fiction to see what the possibilities are but like to have an ending that is positive. This was not positive. I also think that making J. Edgar Hoover a bad guy was not the best thing in the world. He was an incorruptible head of the FBI when the corruption was rampant prior to his taking over the bureau.

Mildly interesting alternative history of USA from 1932 to the late 1940s.
Read Sinclair Lewis' IT CAN'T HAPPEN HERE to get a different take (and IMHO, a better, more interesting read) that is set in the 1920s.

This was very chilling book. Chilling yet a little unrealistic. I really don't think Americans would let Joe Steele get away with the level of dictatorship he did. Yet very well written. The conclusion is very climatic.