Overcoming the Secret Legacy of Male Depression - I Don't Want to Talk About It

This is a very helpful book about understanding some of the men we love - including brothers and fathers. It is very well written and engaging and as a woman I learned a lot - hopefully to be helpful to others.

Well worth reading. This book gave me some enormously helpful insights as a wife and as a student of life. It also made me more aware of the various legacies we carry with us and pass along to our other family members. Good reading for anyone!

Feminist writers often ignore the price men pay in a patriarchal society, as if having "power" were reward enough for living as an emotionally injured human being. Mr. Real's courageous book points out exactly what that price is and how it affects men, women, and society. This book is an eye-opener for everyone, therapist or otherwise. It gives the Oedipus myth another well-deserved blow. It provides the reader with a powerful perspective on current news events, such as sadistic hazing, so poorly explained by facile remarks concerning "peer pressure". Moreover, this book will allow the reader to examine his own ideas and attitudes about our socially constructed roles. The book is not so technical as to be beyond the average interested reader, the examples are clear, and the message well thought out. Mr. Real has laid down the framework for a genuine men's liberation movement.

I learned a great deal reading this book. Terrance Real is a gifted writer, it read with the ease of a novel. Honest, enlightening I would recommend it to anyone and everyone, male and female. Socialization oppresses and cripples men too. This book gives me hope for the future.

Very touching commentary on much neglected 'Male depression'. The writer's personal experience illuminates the book, and brings into light an often neglected area of male suffering. It also renders the condition palatable, unashamed, and completely understandable. I defy anyone to keep dry eye after reading the introduction!

Peggy Natiello, PhD

This book provides the clearest explanation I have ever read of the causal relationship between covert depression originating in childhood and addiction. It explains with equal clarity why such addictions cannot be overcome until the cause of covert depression is identified and made overt, thus permitting confrontation and healing. I wish I had read the book when is was first published seventeen years ago.

Very helpful and profound insight into male depression. The author's ability to be vulnerable and share from his own life brings this text to life for the reader. It has helped me to frame my life in a more helpful way and I am thankful for that.

This is Real's origional, and best, book. I learned a lot about how men think and feel (I'm a woman). It's written to address serious marital problems, but I've recommended it to several close friends with solid marriages. Insightful

This book gave me an insight I never considered. I could see the progression of depression and it made a lot of sense. I have great compassion after reading this book. It is not your typical 12 steps book.

My therapist mentioned that I may want to read this book as my husband seems to be suffering from male depression, in an effort to help me understand him better.
As I read it, I just didn't feel like anything "clicked" when it came to my husband and his behaviors. A snippet here, a snippet there ... but in general, the book didn't help me understand him any better.
For instance, when the author discussed different types of father-ing styles, none of the "types" seemed to fit my husband's father. Maybe a little bit of one or two of the styles, but not enough to make me feel that the combination of these "bits" gave any helpful insight or true understanding of his father ... or my husband for that matter. The same held true of the author's thoughts on mothering styles. (which seemed somewhat chauvanist, bordering on misogynistic at times,)
Perhaps, as a woman, I couldn't "see" the things that men would see in this book.
When I spoke to my therapist later about it, he conceded that he had received similar comments from other patients (including men) regarding this book and said that "The Pain Behind the Mask", (another book on male depression) seemed more applicable and helpful.
In general, it made SOME good points, but something important was missing.
I don't reccommend it personally, but that is only personal experience and doesn't mean it wouldn't help someone else.

This book was recommended to me. It presents the argument that depression in men is different than depression in women. It is helpful, but the author seems tio believe all men are really knuckle-dragging apes. Several stories from the book are helpful in that men are encouraged to see how they treat others and to imagine feelings of other people. Book could have been much better.

Wonderful, enlightening. It helped the relationship between my adult son and myself...even though his father is unwilling to read it or take any responsibility in his son's depression. My son has made good progress and he does not hate his dad. Thanks Terry! He doesn't understand him but has learned to accept what his Dad does have to offer...or avoid him.

This book was recommended to me. It presents the argument that depression in men is different than depression in women. It is helpful, but the author seems tio believe all men are really knuckle-dragging apes. Several stories from the book are helpful in that men are encouraged to see how they treat others and to imagine feelings of other people. Book could have been much better.

My husband has depression and so we ordered multiple books on the subject. This was by far the worst one. I didn't even donate it when we were finished, I put it in the recycle bin. Do yourself, your family and society a favor and buy 'Undoing Depression' by Richard O'Connor. Best book on depression we've read so far.

Spoke with strongly recommended by my therapist. It was incredibly boring listening to a gentleman talk about how miserable his childhood was. Everyone has trials and tribulations growing up. This is just one person's account. Not worth the money.

The book arrived in excellent condition and the delivery time was okay. It was to be used as a text book, and was. The student who used it stated that the book was an excellent study of the subject.
I hope to read it soon, myself.

This book was recommended to me by a therapist because of my depression. I felt this book had no value for me...just a bunch of stories of severe depressed people and how they got that way. It was a best seller but I bet nobody finished it....especially if you are depressed.

I am a clinical psychologist who recently finished reading "I Don't Want to Talk About It." I have read a handful of other books about male development across the lifespan, male communication patterns, etc., but I still was able to learn a lot of additional information from this book about the impact of masculinity of mental health, trauma, and treatment.

The main theme in this book is that due to society's view of how men are "supposed" to be, we end up training boys to disconnect from their vulnerable emotional experiences, traumas, and dependencies. As a result, they develop more "externalizing" symptoms such as aggression, substance abuse, workaholism, compulsive sex, and other addictive behaviors. Terence real uses the term "covert depression" as a catch-all phrase to describe a male's experience of disowned pain, sadness, shame, low self-esteem, anxiety, trauma, hurt, inner children, etc. that lurks behind his externalizing symptoms. He contrasts this with "overt depression," which is what is more clinically defined and generally recognized as major depressive disorder. His theory is that the man needs to recognize and deal with the buried feelings that are part of his "covert depression" so that he can develop "overt depression." And then after that, he needs to reconnect with himself and others, redefine masculinity, and integrate his various emotional experiences so that he can be more psychologically healthy.

I believe this book would be helpful for both professionals and laypeople. Even though it was published in 1998, most of it does not seem that dated. Overall, it was interesting to read and had good case examples. The author uses an interesting psychodynamic/family systems perspective to help men with their problems. I imagine that reading this book would be validating to men and a way to help women to understand the men in their lives better.

I listened to the Audible version of this book, after hearing about his work in Esther Perel’s fantastic “State of Affairs”.

My main problem is that unlike her book, which uses examples and then EXPLAINS the moral of the story to you, this seemed like wall to wall accounts of therapy sessions with very little insight added. I’m not a dummy, but I’m also not a therapist and can’t contextualize what his points are simply from notes on a session - it would be nice if he would generalize things for the reader a bit. Because of this, it’s the only Audible book I have returned dissatisfied.

One might gain a sense of solidarity from listening to the people and their problems, but this lacked any prescriptive or explanatory depth.

This is a very impressive book. It talks mostly about the personal and very troubling experience of covert depression in men and does an excellent job connecting this to broader sociological issues of trauma and patriarchy.

People who do deep and consistent psychological work like this to understand their childhood memories and recover buried emotions and trauma are enormously valuable to our society, I think, in that they can truly relate to a child's experience. They are able to tell us in an adult's vocabulary what goes on with children and what they really need (which children can often tell us ourselves then if we learn to listen once we have this understanding). I value these books more than many parenting manuals written entirely from the parents' perspective for this reason.

I think in 2010 this book is (thankfully) a bit dated as there has been some social progress in the last 15 years. Not every family's economic status is still measured only by the man's career (in fact I suspect it is more the norm for both parents' careers, and both parents' parenting, to be recognized as critical to family success, including successful child-raising?), and we've now seen trauma cycles and cover-ups exposed in what for centuries was one of the most unquestioned, impenetrable patriarchal cultures in the world, the Vatican. Newt Gingrich, Tiger Woods, Jessie James, John Edwards, Mark Sanford and Bill Clinton have been publicly humiliated and excoriated for their attacks on their families and/or "assumed hypocrisy" of the entitled male in patriarchy. Women now represent 50% of the paid workforce, giving women in general a platform of autonomy from which to approach marriage, motherhood and other important aspects of life, and we look to have 3 of 9 Supreme Court Justices who are women. Women are approaching 20% of the Senate. We have at least two self-made female billionaires (Oprah Winfrey and Meg Whitman). And many, many children have better relationships with their fathers than Dr. Real did.

Nonetheless, vestiges of these problems remain, often buried in the psyches of those of us old enough to have had 1950s-style parents, with deferential, often dissociated, pathologized and child-like mothers, and entitled, angry, often abusive, exploitative and child-like fathers.

I would recommend as a companion to this book, "The Gender Knot" by Dr. Allan Johnson. A very readable book that both sexes will likely find helpful, "The Gender Knot" discusses the socio-political-economic construct of patriarchy.

Dr. Real's courageous "facing of the abyss," through years of hard therapeutic work and study, and writing this book to share his story and wisdom with the world are tremendously appreciated. Thank you!

Terrence Real's book is somewhat mistitled. I say "somewhat" because the subtitle gives off the impression that it's a self help book within which the solutions to a person's depression may be found. But this is not a self help book per se. Rather, this is a biography of the author and his patients (in private practice), and how the physical, mental, or emotional damage they suffered in childhood continues to plague them up to the present day. The book illuminates a lot of the inner demons people suffer in their lives, and guides them not only in putting words to their experiences, but also in asking the right questions (or exploring the right themes) with their therapist. As such, this book should be seen as a GUIDE for those inquisitive enough to want to learn more about the roots of their depression. Through these explorations, a person might be able to solve the riddle of their depressive episodes. In that sense, I think this is a very useful book.

This is a well written book about male depression, filled with case studies that the author has overseen throughout his years as a psychotherapist. The style of prose is easy to read and the book avoids technical jargon.
A distinction is made between covert (or hidden) depression and overt depression - the type which is plain for the world to see. Covert depression in many cases is hidden from the victim himself. The author suggests a strong link between covert depression and addictive behavior.
Although the book was very educational, it left me with an overwhelming feeling of sadness. Case after case after case of abuse, violence, despair and hate leaves the reader with a profound sorrow and a feeling that the world is a terrible place.
Male depression is a "legacy" in the sense that it can be passed down through the generations. In many cases, a father is not able to come to grips with his own psychological afflictions and in turn these manifest themselves in the child when he grows up to be a man.
Male depression can also spring from cultural expectations. Men try to conform to the stereotype of "strong, silent". If a man is an alcoholic or addicted gambler, these are conditions that are seen as curable. However, if a man chooses to discuss his emotions or behaves in a manner which might be considered as feminine, then he is avoided like a leper and socially ostracized.
The book concludes with a powerful message - that it is necessary in life to nurture relationships and have a goal in life that is larger than personal gratification. This is a personal quest on which I am currently embarking.
I have no negative things to say about the book and would highly recommend its purchase!

Feminist writers often ignore the price men pay in a patriarchal society, as if having "power" were reward enough for living as an emotionally injured human being. Mr. Real's courageous book points out exactly what that price is and how it affects men, women, and society. This book is an eye-opener for everyone, therapist or otherwise. It gives the Oedipus myth another well-deserved blow. It provides the reader with a powerful perspective on current news events, such as sadistic hazing, so poorly explained by facile remarks concerning "peer pressure". Moreover, this book will allow the reader to examine his own ideas and attitudes about our socially constructed roles. The book is not so technical as to be beyond the average interested reader, the examples are clear, and the message well thought out. Mr. Real has laid down the framework for a genuine men's liberation movement.

Terrence Real doesn't't write self-help books: he writes riveting memoirs about his experience as a therapist, as the son of a depressed father and as a man suffering from depression himself. Highly literate and engaging, I Don't Want to Talk About It was perhaps the first book to look at a well-known secret that men experience-and suffer through-depression in a manner distinctly different from women. Admit to falling prey to depression, and you are in essence, unmanly. Refuse to admit it and sink further into the clutches of depression, affecting your work and family. A wonderful look at a malady that touches us all in some fashion.

Compared to the generalized pap on the internet and in quick-'n-easy self-help books, I Don't Want to Talk About It is a substantial, worthwhile contribution to our knowledge about depression. Terrance Real, whose wife is also a therapist, has spent two decades counseling men and their families. From his considerable experience, he gives you his thoughtful take on depression. He believes there is covert depression which men may hide through drink, work, womanizing, etc., and, usually sparked by a sudden problem, overt depression which is the best opening to deal with the underlying problems that started in childhood. Although most of the many case studies Real provides involve fairly traumatic childhood events, he repeatedly makes the point that trauma can be either active--which gets our attention--or passive, the passive can be mild or extreme neglect, and some kids will react strongly to what society might think of as trivial. As one example, consider the man whose father hugged him and said he loved him for the first time when he got his MBA--a BA just wasn't good enough. Says Real, "Passive trauma in boys is rarely extreme; it is however, pervasive." Becoming a man is not so much something that boys naturally grow into but typically means a loss of the relational: first, mother, then the self, and then others. Once the subtly insecure base has been created--the worries of worth, the feelings of emptiness--the next step is to invite boys to escape the doubts and pain by "grandiosity," the illusion of some kind of dominance--work, work, work, financial success, violence . . . But when the crutches are kicked away, splat, the men and their families wind up in Real's office.
While Real does not provide a step-by-step recovery plan, he describes so many vivid cases that you see how it works, and how hard the clients have to work. First, they must give up their "addictions." Then they must re-assess and treat their relationship with themselves, using the mature parts of their personalities to "re-parent" the underdeveloped. And then re-establishing relations with others, often beginning with such concrete tasks as helping with the dishes or carrying a child's photo to look at in times of stress.
One great strength of this book is that Real can write: His prose is sensitive, sophisticated, and most of all fluid. His case studies--although too many to remember--are grippingly realistic. Another strength is his balanced, mature treatment of gender roles in our society. I feared a "men's movement" approach but found one beyond that. Another strength is that Real speaks from a lot of experience and hard thinking. Although the book would have been more powerful at 280 rather than 380 pages, he conveys his views convincingly. Of course, the inevitable warning is: This is not main stream, comprehensive, orthodox text on depression. It is at once more limited and much better than that.

Whether you lived through the heartbreaking paradox of parental abuse in childhood, or had excellent parents who never broke your trust in them, this book is an enlightening read. The author draws on substantial personal experience with parental abuse, mythic analogy and psychological analysis to show the path that men must walk to understand their most confused behavior towards loved ones and return enriched to their relationships. Some of the detailed vignettes about physical violence can be skipped, but don't miss out on the significance of the idea that mens' (and womens') behaviors belong to an inter-generational legacy, not only their own life experience. Also does a good job of showing the difference between men's and women's styles of dealing with depression. Not a light read, but an intense, brave exploration of a difficult subject with a lot of truth in it. This book can change your view of parents, spouses, friends and your own emotions.

Compared to the generalized pap on the internet and in quick-'n-easy self-help books, I Don't Want to Talk About It is a substantial, worthwhile contribution to our knowledge about depression. Terrance Real, whose wife is also a therapist, has spent two decades counseling men and their families. From his considerable experience, he gives you his thoughtful take on depression. He believes there is covert depression which men may hide through drink, work, womanizing, etc., and, usually sparked by a sudden problem, overt depression which is the best opening to deal with the underlying problems that started in childhood. Although most of the many case studies Real provides involve fairly traumatic childhood events, he repeatedly makes the point that trauma can be either active--which gets our attention--or passive, the passive can be mild or extreme neglect, and some kids will react strongly to what society might think of as trivial. As one example, consider the man whose father hugged him and said he loved him for the first time when he got his MBA--a BA just wasn't good enough. Says Real, "Passive trauma in boys is rarely extreme; it is however, pervasive." Becoming a man is not so much something that boys naturally grow into but typically means a loss of the relational: first, mother, then the self, and then others. Once the subtly insecure base has been created--the worries of worth, the feelings of emptiness--the next step is to invite boys to escape the doubts and pain by "grandiosity," the illusion of some kind of dominance--work, work, work, financial success, violence . . . But when the crutches are kicked away, splat, the men and their families wind up in Real's office.
While Real does not provide a step-by-step recovery plan, he describes so many vivid cases that you see how it works, and how hard the clients have to work. First, they must give up their "addictions." Then they must re-assess and treat their relationship with themselves, using the mature parts of their personalities to "re-parent" the underdeveloped. And then re-establishing relations with others, often beginning with such concrete tasks as helping with the dishes or carrying a child's photo to look at in times of stress.
One great strength of this book is that Real can write: His prose is sensitive, sophisticated, and most of all fluid. His case studies--although too many to remember--are grippingly realistic. Another strength is his balanced, mature treatment of gender roles in our society. I feared a "men's movement" approach but found one beyond that. Another strength is that Real speaks from a lot of experience and hard thinking. Although the book would have been more powerful at 280 rather than 380 pages, he conveys his views convincingly. Of course, the inevitable warning is: This is not main stream, comprehensive, orthodox text on depression. It is at once more limited and much better than that.

Terry Real writes about the presence of chronic male depression in American society today. He calls this type of depression "covert" depression, as opposed to the generally understood clinical depression, which he calls "overt" depression. Distinctions and labels aside, Real gives an insightful description of this crippling disease. As a therapist, he draws upon case histories of his own patients to describe depression and its affect on society and loved-ones. In addition, he relates his own history of dealing with and recovering from depression. Finally, he offers some theories as to how society is responsible for fueling depression in men, mainly through its old-fashioned patriarchial belief system.

Overall, this is a fine book. It is a must have for any man going through depression and who really wants to break through it. Because, as Real says, its only through pain that depression can be relieved.

I am editing my review after a second read. Prior, I had criticized the book for its feminst-psychological approach to treating depression in men. Then it did not make sense to me treat men with this model. Nevertheless, another careful reading helps me to understand what Real is arguing. It is not that we should become "more like woman" and try to handle handle our emotions like a woman may, but rather to foster the sensitive side in us. In other words, learn how to relate better to ourselves. In Real's words, practice "relational maturity".

I found the book a pleasant read at times (typically during case history examples) and extremely complicated at others. Yet, the book is well worth the effort and its Real's personal experience that really brings this book to life. I have used it as a primary tool in my own recovery.

Even though the author writes largely about heterosexual men in this (North American) society, I think his insights are relevant to the upbringing and conditioning of men across cultures and sexual orientations. I particularly liked the way he dealt with the nature/nurture debate and presented compelling evidence of the role of societal construction of gender roles. Very rarely have I seen a man write which such passion and conviction about the need to transcend culturally engrained "masculine" and "feminine" roles.
Some minor gripes: I did have a problem with the suggestion - rather, terminology - that male depression is "inherited" from the fathers because it implies some sort of genetic transmission (via the Y chromosome?); while the case for cultural transmission is stronger.
Also, while this paternally and societally reinforced adherence to strict gender roles may be traumatic to the male psyche in the long run, I suspect that th! e trauma of *failing* to conform to these roles may be more immediate and crippling to a young boy. I wish he had addressed solutions to this trauma as well.

This was an amazingly insightful book. Each chapter was a subject of its own, yet the whole told an important tale. I found myself having many insights during each chapter's topics that were offshoots of the main point of this very well-researched book that drew together many related and tangential areas of research. This book dug under depression to its main roots and then to its various manifestations. I wondered before why so many with depression might deny they have it when it seems so obvious, but it turns out there are many ways to hide depression from oneself. This book also ties the roots of depression and how it manifests to societal norms as well as family dynamics. It especially explains how depression in men is different and what can be done about it. I found this very useful. Men who feel they are moving fast to escape from pain, as well as those that know they are depressed should read this book.

I have spent my entire life with feelings of frustration, depression and low self-esteem. I have spent a considerable amount of time reading self help books, because I have a mistrust of health professionals and a hatred of psychotropic medication. I have always resisted therapy by diverting attention away from my problems with humour, or with anger, or by never returning.

Over the past year my self study has intensified as I search for results in my personal war against depression. I have grown a lot from the mental case I was a few years ago, but this book has done more to awaken me than anything else I have read, with the possible exception of "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward.

The main problem is that males who are depressed are marginalized in self-help literature. Women seem to be the target audience, and not to be sexist, but I was not getting the whole picture.

Terrance Real tells it straight, backs up his arguments, speaks about his own battle with depression, and offers hope for change. I hope everyone who reads these endorsements goes and buys/borrows this book for themselves and/or a loved one. You may not want to hear what he has to say, but you NEED to hear it.

Thanks Terrence, I am now going to try finding a counsellor I can trust. Do you make housecalls?

Brilliant. A necessity for anyone with a man in their life who's hard to reach. Or anyone (man or woman) who struggles with defenses and depression. Not only did this book illuminate the special brand of male defenses and what it's like to grow up as a man, but I found insight to my own pain as well. I think it's time that our culture woke up the fact that men have emotional needs and that blocking them out only causes destruction. This book was utterly fascinating and well-written. I couldn't put it down and highly recommend it.

The insights here are simple, straightforward and profound. It explains how modern society can sometimes put men into a no-win situation, resulting in a feeling of frustration, impotence, incompetence, and depression. The only socially acceptable way to express it is rage (even though rage is vilified, I can tell you that showing hurt, pain and weakness invites scorn, distain and disrespect, even from those who purport to love us).

By explaining how we get into this trap, it helps us to understand it and thus gives us a chance to find a way out. I wish I could give a copy of this book to every man and woman in the world. I see so much of it played out every day all around us, and the pain both men and women feel because of it does so much damage. Read it before you have a crisis if you can, but if you are already in crisis, make the effort to read this book even if you can't read anything else. It might even save your life. Believe me, I know what I'm talking about.

My therapist mentioned that I may want to read this book as my husband seems to be suffering from male depression, in an effort to help me understand him better.
As I read it, I just didn't feel like anything "clicked" when it came to my husband and his behaviors. A snippet here, a snippet there ... but in general, the book didn't help me understand him any better.
For instance, when the author discussed different types of father-ing styles, none of the "types" seemed to fit my husband's father. Maybe a little bit of one or two of the styles, but not enough to make me feel that the combination of these "bits" gave any helpful insight or true understanding of his father ... or my husband for that matter. The same held true of the author's thoughts on mothering styles. (which seemed somewhat chauvanist, bordering on misogynistic at times,)
Perhaps, as a woman, I couldn't "see" the things that men would see in this book.
When I spoke to my therapist later about it, he conceded that he had received similar comments from other patients (including men) regarding this book and said that "The Pain Behind the Mask", (another book on male depression) seemed more applicable and helpful.
In general, it made SOME good points, but something important was missing.
I don't reccommend it personally, but that is only personal experience and doesn't mean it wouldn't help someone else.

Terrence Real's book presents an excellent analysis of how our culture leads men to handle (or more accurately not handle) depression. His distinctions about the way men more frequently exhibit their depression in a covert way is right on. His book makes it easy to understand why men so often resort to addictive defenses to deflect rather than face their depression.
Any man who has been depressed or addicted, or anyone living with a man who has been depressed or addicted, will get a lot of valuable insight from this book.
St. George Lee, Author of Light in the Darkness; A Guide to Recovery...