Rediscovering the Archetypes of the Mature Masculine

A very useful book with regard to personal development a map of the ego (psyche) is a very useful tool never the less its got its limitations & in my view dosnt go far enough. But we develop in stages & id suggest for many its a great start to a great adventure

You need to read this book. Everybody should read this book!
It hold up a mirror in front of your face and shows you your potential but also what stand in the way of your potential. It then gives you ways to overcome these inner roadblocks.

I purchased this book as I struggled with my manhood, after having read No More Mr. Nice Guy. I found the examples of the King (organizer), Warrior (aggressiveness), Magician (knowledge), and Lover (feeling) quite insightful. I understood I was lacking in Warrior part and the Lover part. I had a hard time though understanding the Lover part and how to improve. It was hard to take the new age parts in that section and apply it to my life.

This book is more informative, and not as much self help. It is nice to read, but if you are struggling with masculinity issues, I'd recommend No More Mr. Nice Guy first, and then Way of the Superior Man.

Heard about this book through Uni. If you're working with a group of males, this is a great resource. it's great at starting conversations and helping people to understand themselves and other (males) better. strongly recommend this one

This book explains the four "powers" of masculinity, and does so superbly. It uses common language, not psycho-babble. Most importantly, it emphasizes why modern males too often have difficulty growing from the immature psyches of youth to the mature psyches we need.

As a woman, It was a fascinating and insightful dive into the archetypes of men. It was easy for me to evaluate which men in my life were mature and who was stuck in boy psychology. I would also recommend this book for parents who want to help their boys cross over to mature men and how women can be counter productive at the critical adolescent stage. It would also be a good read for any single young woman who wants to know what mature men should be acting like. For women, in an age of equality, you can see yourself as the female version of the archetypes, which will help you as you examine your roles with your male partners and how you can unite beautifully as you both rotate through the mature archetypes.

This is an excellent primer that exposes a trend that has existed in the Western World for some time, now. When songs like "Where have all the cowboys gone?" comes on the air, you should read this book for the answer. To be a man is not to be aggressive and war-like. Rather, it's to be giving and feeling. Read on, brothers (and sisters looking for insights!)

the book has been rounda good while now, but it looks at Jungian archetypes but extends them out as four basic humaqn archetypes of the King, Warrior Magician and Lover. We are introduced to a magical world that allows an in dpeth view of human psychology with very useable tools for understanding ourselves.

I read this book when it first came out over 20 years ago as a young woman and it changed my life. The authors coined the term "puerarchy" which means "rule of the sons" as a more accurate way to describe the distribution of power in our society, because "patriarchy" means "rule of the fathers" and what we actually have is "rule of the immature males" or "boys." After reading this book, I realized that bullying and immature behavior is not typical of "men" it's typical of adult males expressing the "boy" archetype. The book is still relevant today, sadly, as we can see in Donald Trump's presidential campaign, which is a classic example of the "boy" archetypes. The large following of supporters Trump has shows the need for this book today.

One caveat: The title says "archetypes of the mature masculine," but even the authors admit that these archetypes can apply to all humans, women included. In fact, I've used this book as a guide for developing the mature human archetypes in myself. The difference between men and women lies in the fact that biologically, women have a "built-in" initiation rite for going from "girl" to "woman," namely menstruation and childbirth. But males do not, so they require societal initiation rights to go psychologically from "boy" to "man." It's these initiations rites that have not only been lost, they've been perverted (by fraternities, gangs and the military, for example) to reinforce the "boy" archetypes .

Over the years, I have suggested this book to many men, who have thanked me after reading it, finding it very valuable. I was even requested by a group of men in the Pick Up community to lead a book circle of men on this book, which I did. Since the archetypes apply to women as well as males, I was able to offer the young men concrete examples of how I developed each of the archetypes in myself.

Some of the book is dated today, such as the pop culture examples. And I believe if the book were written today, the authors would have to change some of the language as the terms "masculine" and "feminine" are, by definition, obsolete words today. All the qualities we formerly termed "masculine" or "feminine" are clearly manifesting in all humans today, which makes them "human" qualities that are not attached to biological sex.

The reviewers giving this book a low rating are either 1) taking issue with the cultural and religious examples which they feel are misrepresented 2) don't like the supposed "new-agey" tone (what does that even mean?) or 3) have the "boy" world view described in the book and, therefore, violently oppose it's thesis, which is to be expected. The book is critiquing them, after all.

As to the cultural and religious examples, the authors are Jungians, and therefore they are speaking to the right brain in symbols and archetypes. Doing a left brain analysis of the book misses the point. And, even if they don't get the references right all the time, this book still represents a huge leap forward in thinking in the field of Men's Studies.

Regarding the description of the tone as "new-agey" I think that's more about the reviewers' biases towards anything that seems "feminine" or "spiritual," which I think the authors would say is another manifestation of the boy archetype.

A relevant, must-read even today, for all people, male and female.

This is a very unique book. I have enjoyed reading every page of it. It begs the male mind to begin analyzing where we are at this moment in life. Do we need to develop ourselves into a stronger personality. Also gives a great insight into the pitfalls of people around you which can breed understanding of how to work with those people for better.

A friend recommended this book, and it is very easy to read,I have a son and it is such good information about boys and men, it helps me to understand him better. Also it reminds me that marking passages in life with ceremony is a good practice - not only good, but can make life more meaningful and fun.

This book was good at helping see the different roles of the masculine or what I call the divine masculine! And created time an space to look at them an really notice them within ourselves!!! On a journey myself to create a more divine humble loving but strong masculinity within myself an balance if with femine within as well and would say this book did help! And would recommend this book!!!

After becoming interested in the mythopoetic men's movement, I read Bly's Iron John, which has its problems, but it also drives with seriousness and passion-- the reader feels Bly's vision and introspection, and we are made better by reading it. After reading Bly's book, I wanted to move on and read more from the movement, so Moore and Gillette were an obvious next step because their popularity and seeming influence in the movement-- even Bly cites their work again and again in Iron John.
Instead of being a great source for personal reflections, I was let down by King Warrior Magician and Lover. As some other critical reviewers have noted, the book is filled with almost random movie and pop-culture references, which remind me of grading the work of college students-- you get the feeling the authors really just wanted to talk about their favorite movies. What's worse is that these films are now another generation old-- while Bly's work comes across as timeless, Moore and Gillette's comes across as dated. The book also contains reproductions of paintings that aren't discussed in the text, which also reminds me of reading college papers which are thrown together, asking the reader to figure things out for themselves (since the authors can't clearly explain what they mean) rather than a driving tour-de-force, like Bly's, where the reader trusts that the deeper one reads into any line, the more meaning they will derive from the author's thoughts.
Being interested in world cultures and religions, I would also like to call to question the validity of innumerable comparisons that Moore and Gillette make in the book-- they seem simply careless. They seem to write that Hindu myths can be simply lumped together to support this point or another, and that Chinese Daoist thought is interchangeably synonymous with some other belief system. What this book practices, over and over again, is essentialism; it is flawed in sociological, anthropological, historical and cultural analyses-- it has none of the delicacy that allows Bly to discuss how some truths can be existential and archetypal. The book is obviously more pulp self-help than a work that advances any academically sound arguments. The book's evidence for claims is shaky. The book's examples are at times daft and other times left almost completely unexplained, which gives the reader a nauseating feeling that the authors have brought up a billion topics though none of them have been made to touch the reader's experience.
This said, the delineation of archetypes is fascinating and the discussion of fully manifest masculine archetypes, shadow poles, and boyish attempts at these masculinities is fascinating. It is the very core of the ideas in the book that deserve a read, and it's these that we can learn from. While the authors don't help the readers make this material accessible to their own lives, the material itself is still valuable, and they do enrich the type of discussion that Bly builds such a passion for in Iron John. It is a shame that so much of this book's 150 pages are wasted on irrelevant examples and poor writing (and, of course, pictures!)-- one definitely wishes that all five of these books could be compressed into a single, serious volume. As is, this book left me curious as to the ideas included in the next four books, but with no desire to tolerate the authors' writing styles in order to actually get to these ideas.

I felt that this book was very helpful. This book has many helpful tips for young/old men to help.in accessing each of the archetypes. I would recommend this book to anyone that is trying to find their path in life, and to mature into a Morse productive human being.

No wonder so many of us are Alpha women. This book answers so many questions I have had about men such as why are they so fickle? Why are they so childish and bratty sometimes? Why can't they communicate with us easily? Well ladies, the short answer is because we have not raised our boys to be men. Real men. I know of women who emasculate their men, some have wormed their way into an adult man's life and keep them immature just so they can "have" a man. Some women refer to their husbands as "the other child" she is raising. The book gives exact descriptions of a mature masculine man in each of his 4 energy states as King, warrior, magician and lover, and these guys sound soooo appealing. The book also reveals methods a man can grow into these energies; some sound to me like practicing magic. Except here's the other problem; I quote from the book, " ...it is clear that the world is overpopulated with not only immature men but also tyrannical and abusive little girls pretending to be women." Is the author referring to us Alphas, I wonder, because it fits one aspect of that personality type? If so, then write us a book please.

Deeply rooted in Carl Young's philosophicum.
This book can be a clearifying reminder of the expression of the masculine energy and the way it unfolds in the maturing of a male life.
If you work in self devolepment or as a professional i recomend this for you.

If you are making the transition from boy to man, or simply just interested in learning more about Masculine Psychology then this is the book for you. The analogies are relatively outdated but the authors do a great job at making the content of the book easy to relate to. Short book, not necessarily a quick read, but there is a lot of good info in under 150 pages. Great book for public transportation.

If you are making the transition from boy to man, or simply just interested in learning more about Masculine Psychology then this is the book for you. The analogies are relatively outdated but the authors do a great job at making the content of the book easy to relate to. Short book, not necessarily a quick read, but there is a lot of good info in under 150 pages. Great book for public transportation.

I follow The Art of Manliness blog closely, and when it recently inaugurated a series on the "mature masculine archetypes" as described by Carl Jung and the authors of this book, I immediately ordered a copy. While I don't subscribe to much of it, I find Jungian ideas intriguing, especially the ideas of archetypes and temperaments and how the various kinds of both interact. The writer at The Art of Manliness pointed out that some of the ideas in this book are "New-Agey" and not for him, but he still benefited from reading it. Thus advised, I began reading my copy as soon as it arrived.

The central argument of this engaging and readable book is that men have been unjustly denigrated by a society suspicious of masculinity, and that society has therefore been increasingly drained of "the mature masculine," the qualities inherent in fully-developed men. This condition is partly the fault of overzealous feminists, but also partly the fault of men who have failed to mature and are trapped in "boy psychology" or "the immature masculine." In short, these perpetual boys have given men a bad name. But another problem is the lack of rites of passage whereby the immature masculine dies and is reborn as the mature, bringing a male from boyhood to manhood. Men need these rites of passage in order to mature, and the modern world has failed to deliver. I sympathize greatly with all of this.

The most interesting part of the book to me was that detailing the four archetypes that make up the masculine psyche. They are the four men of the title: the King, the archetype of wisdom and rulership; the Warrior, the archetype of aggression and vigor; the Magician, the archetype of knowledge and technical mastery; and the Lover, the archetype of all kinds of connectedness, romantic or otherwise. Each archetype exists in mature and immature forms, and each has "Shadow" forms that are negative aspects of the archetype.

For example, in boyhood a boy might be a Hero, possibly sliding into bullying or cowardice (the opposed "bipolar" Shadow forms), but after a rite of passage bringing him into the mature masculine, the man becomes a Warrior, whose Shadow forms are the sadist and masochist. The King exists first as the Divine Child, who can become a High Chair Tyrant or Weakling Prince, and even as a mature King must avoid the Tyrant and the Weakling. The Precocious Child, whose Shadow forms are the Trickster and the Dummy, matures into the Magician, who may become the Detached Manipulator or the Denying Innocent One. Finally, the Oedipal Child, who may drift between the Mama's Boy and the Dreamer, matures into the Lover, who must avoid becoming the Addicted Lover or the Impotent Lover.

Every man's psyche is composed of all four archetypes and the four relate to and interact with each other in different ways, strengthening and tempering each other to maintain a balance, a mature masculinity. A Warrior who lacks the Lover becomes a sadist, and when the Lover lacks the Warrior he is trampled into the Impotent Lover. This is the real meat of the book, the most fascinating stuff.

Like the writer who recommended the book, I benefited from reading King, Warrior, Magician, Lover, but the book has serious problems which kept me from enjoying it.

The book's "New-Agey" parts didn't bother me that much--they were easy enough to ignore in favor of the genuinely insightful parts, of which each chapter has at least two or three. The authors are at their best when discussing the dysfunction of the archetypes, whether the tyranny of the King, the weepy love-addiction of the Lover, or the manipulation of the Magician. They also describe each archetype well. Had they stuck to describing what each archetype is and what can go wrong with it, I'd have given the book four or five stars. It would also have been a much shorter book, because the vast majority of the book is made up of illustrative examples coming from the authors' experiences and from a wide swath of history, religion, and mythology. I don't have problems with the former, but the latter are almost always terrible.

One of the most important principles I learned in studying history and comparative religion was not to look only for similarities, but to look especially keenly for differences and what those differences indicate. Again, the "New-Agey" tone of the book didn't bother me, but in the authors' attempts to find support from every conceivable belief system--from Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Greek and Roman mythology, ancient mystery religions like Gnosticism, and even Zoroastrianism--they stretch too far and often do violence to the myths they invoke. In describing the King's "generative" function of fertility, they write that "[t]he Egyptian Amun-Ra had his harem in the sky, and Zeus's exploits are well-known" (59). Zeus is hardly a model King. He is an oaf in Homer and a bully in Ovid, and fits better the authors' conception of the Tyrant, yet here we see him invoked solely because his "exploits" as a provider of fertility (often to unwilling mortal women) fit their thesis at the moment. Elsewhere, writing of "the end of the Hero," they write that "in legend and myth, he 'dies,' is transformed into a god, and translated into Heaven. We recall the story of Jesus' resurrection and ascension, or or Oedipus's final disappearance in a flash of light at Colonus, or Elijah's ascent into the sky in a fiery chariot" (41). The authors miss the point of all three of these examples--Jesus's death, resurrection, and ascension proved him a god rather than made him one; Oedipus's mysterious death came not through his role as Hero but because he had reconciled himself to the will of the gods and stopped warring with fate; and Elijah must appear on this list for the superficial reason of his assumption into heaven, because as a prophet he was certainly not representative of the Hero/Warrior archetype.

Examples drawn from actual history are just as clumsy. Ho Chi Minh is recommended as an object of veneration for those struggling to "access" their King archetype, and Pharaoh Akhenaten, who almost destroyed his kingdom through coercive religious reforms, is held up as a "beautiful" example of the King. Most of their information on Patton comes from the movie (one of the film's sources is listed in the "Selected Reading" but never cited in the book) and suffers, like the mytho-religious examples, gross misinterpretation. Referring to the famous slapping incident, they write that "Patton, for all his virtues, evidently had an underlying fear of his own weakness and cowardice. . . . Though he does not know it, what he has seen is the face of his own hidden fear and weakness projected onto another. He has glimpsed the weakling within" (68). Anyone familiar with Patton or soldiering in general recognizes this as wrongheaded. Even those who have seen the movie should recognize that, since in the very scene the authors describe Patton points out that it is shameful to have a coward use the same hospital as men wounded in battle--Patton's rage has nothing to do with himself, but with the men under his command whom he feels have earned better than to share such company.

Elsewhere the authors' historical information is just plain wrong--or made up. This reaches its apex in the section on the Lover, in which they recapitulate the old stories about how "Christianity, Judaism, and Islam . . . have all persecuted the Lover," going on to say that "Christianity has taught more or less consistently that the world . . . is evil, that the Lord of this world is Satan, and that it is he who is the source of the sensuous pleasures (the foremost of which is sex) that Christians must avoid" (126). True, this belief has been a pillar of some Christian sects, but only heretical Christian sects--it is called Manichaeism, and was imported from the dualist Zoroastrianism which the authors warmly commend elsewhere. In another instance, they repeat a purely fabricated story about Nazi SS trainees being forced to raise and kill a puppy in order to complete their training. (The same myth has been propagated about US Marines.)

That last example glances against a problem that exists throughout the book, which is self-contradiction. The authors lament--and I lament with them--the lack of meaningful rites for men in the modern world. As an example of what we're missing, they invoke the film The Emerald Forest, in which a boy, in order to become a man, "is seemingly tortured by the older men in the tribe; and forced into the forest vines, he is being eaten alive by jungle ants. He writes in agony, his body mutilated in the jaws of the hungry ants. We fear the worst," but come daylight he is greeted as a man and "takes on a man's responsibilities and identity" (4-5). But later they decry "the kind of sadism displayed in boot camp in the name of supposedly necessary 'ritual humiliation' designed to deprive recruits of their individuality . . . Far too often, the drill sergeant's motives are the motives of the sadistic Warrior seeking to humiliate and violate the men put in his charge" (90). Again, this is so wrong-headed as to defy belief. How, for instance, do the authors know that drill sergeants are only acting out of sadism but the village elders of The Emerald Forest are not? Military training is one of the very last great masculine rites of passage in the modern world--with elders guiding their young counterparts through obstacles to become a fully-realized member of their society, greeting them as equals at the end of training--and how the authors fail to see that I cannot understand. Elsewhere, the authors laud the Magician's Gnostic access to specialized knowledge which, like psychotherapists, they know they cannot share in full with the initiated, and within the same chapter condemn the Shadow form of the Magician, who will not share his specialized knowledge with the initiated.

Finally, there is also the issue of psychobabble. Fortunately there is very little of it in this book, which helps it immensely. The book is nothing if not readable, and avoiding jargon goes far in that regard. But in a few instances it does creep in, especially when discussing how to "access" these archetypes (which, incidentally, they never say how to do--it seems to just happen). In one absurd instance, when discussing Lovers as people who devote themselves passionately to hobbies, they write that "[s]team train buffs have a sensuous, even erotic, affinity for these great, shining black 'phalluses'" (130). I knew one enormously dedicated and widely published train enthusiast during graduate school and can guarantee his interest did not derive from a locomotive's fleeting resemblance to the phallus.

I've gone on entirely too long, but I really needed to give examples. I could go on much further. The book contains some good information, as I wrote above, and when the authors discuss things within their depth--staying out of history and leaving mythology and religion alone--they produce fascinating stuff. But they undermine every good point they make with pages of bad, false, misinterpreted, or wrong-headed examples, chosen for reasons of superficial resemblance.

Recommended for the good parts, which constitute perhaps four pages of every chapter.

The things it gets right, it nails, but it makes a metric ton of assumptions and falls on its face.

Another reviewer has put it better than I could about its historical accuracy and the examples it cherry-picks. The reviewer had commented (paraphrased) that the book had merged together all the religions to try and build support for their theory.

Thing is, it's not just religion, but it's also radical feminism they try merging with.

From the introduction, "Patriarchy, in our view, is an attack on masculinity in its fullness as well as femininity in its fullness. Those caught up in the structures and dynamics of patriarchy seek to dominate not only women but men as well." This is, of course, assigning motives to people long dead without evidence to support it. In a sense, the authors are trying very hard to prove they are "good feminists" while trying to hint that, well, men might have problems too.

So really, in trying to merge every single thing together, they've gotten an incomprehensible, contradictory, and misleading mess with some nuggets of wisdom in them.

Moore and Gillette are Jungian Depth Psychologists who, it appears from their writing, have never actual met anyone who embodies the males roles of which they claim expertise.
In decrying the lack of initiation rituals for boys to become men in western culture Moore and Gillette identify pseudo-rituals of initiation such as the rituals involved in gang membership, the prison population, and the military. In their comments explaining their lumping of the military in with criminals they reveal their lack of understanding of the United States military (and, I would add, any functional military in the world today). Moore and Gillette refer to the transitioning of civilians to soldiers through, what they clearly do not understand to be a highly structured and disciplined harrowing process, of “Boot Camp” to be an initiation rite as fantasy and refer to it as a period of sadistic humiliation and non-identity (90). They go on to say such pseudo-initiations do not produce men because “real men are not wantonly violent or hostile” (5). This further reveals the authors absolute lack of understanding of the military. Moore and Gillette go even further yet and refer to the military as an “obvious example” of dysfunctional warrior energy (93). This lack of understanding is an important consideration when the subject of their writing is “Warrior” masculinity. It seems, from the disdain they show for soldiers, as if Moore and Gillette have a warrior archetype that does not reflect the reality of warriors.
Moore and Gillette use as a positive example of an initiation rite one utilized by the Brazilian Indians in which a boy is ritually put to death, left to be eaten by ants, and left writhing in physical agony before restored by the village elders. Such an extreme test is presented as to what it is that forces the boy psychology to transition into man psychology.
Although it is an obvious concern that they express, it can be difficult to understand how Moore and Gillette understand ritual initiation. They exalt the extreme but in their explanation of modern ritual initiation for the boys of today they tell the reader the boy needs psychotherapy (in multiple forms), meditation on positive archetypes, prayer, and magic with a spiritual elder, among other things, none of which reflect the physical hardship and ritual dying they claim is so important. (43)

The authors usually make a point by referencing myth or ancient history rather than science and studies. The authors seem to lament that we no longer live in ancient times. This might be a better book if it was directed towards screenwriting and you wanted to create mythic characters. I was not getting much practical information, so I did not finish the book.

Moore and Gillette are Jungian Depth Psychologists who, it appears from their writing, have never actual met anyone who embodies the males roles of which they claim expertise.
In decrying the lack of initiation rituals for boys to become men in western culture Moore and Gillette identify pseudo-rituals of initiation such as the rituals involved in gang membership, the prison population, and the military. In their comments explaining their lumping of the military in with criminals they reveal their lack of understanding of the United States military (and, I would add, any functional military in the world today). Moore and Gillette refer to the transitioning of civilians to soldiers through, what they clearly do not understand to be a highly structured and disciplined harrowing process, of “Boot Camp” to be an initiation rite as fantasy and refer to it as a period of sadistic humiliation and non-identity (90). They go on to say such pseudo-initiations do not produce men because “real men are not wantonly violent or hostile” (5). This further reveals the authors absolute lack of understanding of the military. Moore and Gillette go even further yet and refer to the military as an “obvious example” of dysfunctional warrior energy (93). This lack of understanding is an important consideration when the subject of their writing is “Warrior” masculinity. It seems, from the disdain they show for soldiers, as if Moore and Gillette have a warrior archetype that does not reflect the reality of warriors.
Moore and Gillette use as a positive example of an initiation rite one utilized by the Brazilian Indians in which a boy is ritually put to death, left to be eaten by ants, and left writhing in physical agony before restored by the village elders. Such an extreme test is presented as to what it is that forces the boy psychology to transition into man psychology.
Although it is an obvious concern that they express, it can be difficult to understand how Moore and Gillette understand ritual initiation. They exalt the extreme but in their explanation of modern ritual initiation for the boys of today they tell the reader the boy needs psychotherapy (in multiple forms), meditation on positive archetypes, prayer, and magic with a spiritual elder, among other things, none of which reflect the physical hardship and ritual dying they claim is so important. (43)

I've read a few similar books and let me say, this is one of the best. Extremely insightful and practical. Really helps frame the psychology of humans in a way that is easy to understand and explains so many strange tendencies and desires that manifest in our modern times. Also helps give a sort of direction if you seem deficient in one of the four archetypes they cover. Once you finish this, check out the equally enlightening longer version works on each of the 4 archetypes by the same author. Also the audiobook version is excellent!

This book is pretentious drivel at it's finest, and I was recommended to read it. Honestly it's just garbage. Stop labelling everything and everyone. Just be comfortable with your own persona on the inside and stop trying to classify yourself as a freaking archetype. This isn't science, its an opinion piece, and it is based on bias. I found it profoundly silly. Embrace your differences and stop sliding things into categories.

The authors wrote in the Preface to this 1990 book, "the psychological research which led to the naming of these archetypes as the four fundamental configurations which... constitute the deep structures of the mature male psyche was first presented as a series of lectures... 'King, Warrior, Magician, Lover' is an exploratory survey of the implications of this research for understanding the male psyche... Our purpose in writing this book, however, has been to offer men a simplified and readable outline of an 'operator's manual for the male psyche.' Reading this book should help you understand your strengths and weaknesses as a man and provide you with a map to the territories of masculine selfhood which you still need to explore."

They add in the Introduction, "First, we need to take very seriously the disappearance of RITUAL PROCESSES for initiating boys into manhood... We can point to the historical background for the decline of ritual initiation... What happens to a society if the ritual processes by which these identities are formed become discredited? In the case of men, there are many who either had no initiation into manhood or who had pseudo-initiations that failed to evoke the needed transition into adulthood... In our view, patriarchy is NOT the expression of deep and rooted masculinity, for deep and rooted masculinity is NOT abusive. Patriarchy is the expression of the IMMATURE masculine." (Pg. xvi-xvii)

They observe, "With a scarcity in our culture of mature men, it goes without saying that ritual elders are in desperately short supply." (Pg. 7) They state, "Young men today are starving for blessing from older men, starving for blessing from the King energy. This is why they cannot, as we say, 'get it together.' They shouldn't have to. They need to be blessed." (Pg. 61)

They suggest, "each of the archetypes of Boy psychology gives rise ... to each of the archetypes of mature masculinity... Thus, the Divine Child, modulated and enriched by life's experiences, becomes the King; the Precocious Child becomes the Magician; the Oedipal Child becomes the Lover; and the Hero becomes the Warrior." (Pg. 15) They add, "The Warrior energy... is a vital ingredient in our world-building and plays an important role in extending the benefits of the highest human virtues and cultural achievements to all of humanity." (Pg. 79) By way of contrast, "The Lover is the masculine energy that brings a man back into relatedness with human beings, in all their frailty and vulnerability. The Lover makes the man under the influence of the Warrior compassionate at the same time that he is doing his duty." (Pg. 87) "The Magician... is the archetype of thoughtfulness and reflection... it is also the energy of introversion." (Pg. 108)

More than twenty years after it was written [and although some of the concepts presented may make us groan, "Oh, that was SOOOO '90s!"], this book still contains some very helpful insights for men (and for women, interested in learning more about men!).

This book makes many many claims, but backs them up with zero research or sources. It'll say something to the extent of "if x happens you always get y," and then just move on without given any research or examples that show their claim. On top of that they cherry-pick examples from history to "prove" their archetypes, but, they don't tell the full stories from history and only use the parts that fit in with what they are saying.

It is a quick read, so it's got that for it, but I would not recommend this book at all when there is so much better material out there.

I keep going back to this book which explores the four aspects of the mature masculine: king, warrior, magician, lover. I return to this work for ideas and inspiration to take to my weekly guy support group, my "men's circle", a "men's team" as we call it. This book remains rich for ceremony ideas and the like for such occasions. And all this some twenty years after the publication date. Nice. They call this a "book with legs" in the publishing world.

What interested me most in this work was getting a handle on what it might mean to be more of a well-rounded man. I'd like to be a mentor of other men and in so doing be more than just a CEO capitalist good with a wallet; or just a love crazed-poet and Don Juan; or just a club swinging knuckle dragger defending his family. I want to be a little bit of all these guys, actually.

The most interesting to me was the authors' Moore and Gillette and their take on the Lover archetype of the mature masculine. They explore the sexuality aspect here, whacking the sex negative Western Church and rightfully so. But they miss a key thread in the Eastern Church which is far more sensual and even sexual, with a strong Divine Eros tradition, even an Eros Maniakos focus with a full roster of God as Lover of Mankind type ideals held dear among the mystics of the Egyptian desert and Orthodox monastics in general through the ages...in the east at least.

Hats off to the authors for providing a guide book for the spiritual side of what it means to be a man. I think this book most helpful for those trying to work these things out in real life through hands on support groups or a guy accountability group and the like. Pity the man trying to make sense of these concepts without a place to flesh them out and be perhaps deluded he's being successful when he well may not.

As counselors, myth specialists and religion researchers, these authors give the reader a sense that these concepts have been road tested by both of them outside the confines of academia or the counselor couch. Good.

I recommend this book and plan to give a copy or two to my adult sons who may well be mentoring soon male progeny of their own.

Moore and Gillette are Jungian Depth Psychologists who, it appears from their writing, have never actual met anyone who embodies the males roles of which they claim expertise.
In decrying the lack of initiation rituals for boys to become men in western culture Moore and Gillette identify pseudo-rituals of initiation such as the rituals involved in gang membership, the prison population, and the military. In their comments explaining their lumping of the military in with criminals they reveal their lack of understanding of the United States military (and, I would add, any functional military in the world today). Moore and Gillette refer to the transitioning of civilians to soldiers through, what they clearly do not understand to be a highly structured and disciplined harrowing process, of “Boot Camp” to be an initiation rite as fantasy and refer to it as a period of sadistic humiliation and non-identity (90). They go on to say such pseudo-initiations do not produce men because “real men are not wantonly violent or hostile” (5). This further reveals the authors absolute lack of understanding of the military. Moore and Gillette go even further yet and refer to the military as an “obvious example” of dysfunctional warrior energy (93). This lack of understanding is an important consideration when the subject of their writing is “Warrior” masculinity. It seems, from the disdain they show for soldiers, as if Moore and Gillette have a warrior archetype that does not reflect the reality of warriors.
Moore and Gillette use as a positive example of an initiation rite one utilized by the Brazilian Indians in which a boy is ritually put to death, left to be eaten by ants, and left writhing in physical agony before restored by the village elders. Such an extreme test is presented as to what it is that forces the boy psychology to transition into man psychology.
Although it is an obvious concern that they express, it can be difficult to understand how Moore and Gillette understand ritual initiation. They exalt the extreme but in their explanation of modern ritual initiation for the boys of today they tell the reader the boy needs psychotherapy (in multiple forms), meditation on positive archetypes, prayer, and magic with a spiritual elder, among other things, none of which reflect the physical hardship and ritual dying they claim is so important. (43)

The four archetypes show their power from the first. These are not alien ideas forced onto us. Rather, they are us, in a more pure form. The archetypes help us to see what is best in ourselves, as men. The King is the source of order, he is wise and just. The Warrior has boundless energy. He is devoted to a cause greater than himself, and fiercely loyal. The Magician is powerful and crafty, and he has the ability to detach himself from events and see more clearly. The Lover seeks beauty in all its forms, and delights in it. He can break down barriers and empathize with everyone.

This book is valuable for anyone who wants to know what it is to be a man. It is also valuable if you are interested in understanding depictions of masculinity, both positive and negative. I can easily think of people I know, or situations I have found myself in, and immediately see the application of these archetypes of masculinity.

Moore and Gilette are definitely children of their age: the Age of Aquarius. With that in mind, I found the chapter on the Lover the most unbalanced. This is the chapter that is the least burdened with scholarship or historical accuracy. It is also the least aware of the negative side of the archetype. The chapter on the King went into great depth on the bipolar shadow Kings, the Tyrant, and the Weakling. The chapter on the Lover talked about the Addicted Lover and the Impotent Lover, but many of the examples used for the Lover per se were really just as bad as the shadow forms. Given that the Lover is the spirit of the age, it is probably hard to attain critical distance.

If you are familiar with Dr. Paul Dobransky and David Deangelo (Eban Pagan) you will recognize this book from their discussions. If you are not familiar with them, Dr. Paul's Omega Male series and their Deep Inner Game discusses these concepts.

Tony Robbins uses them extensively. Trying to review such a powerful book is difficult because it is so deep. Suggestion, read this along with Way of the Superior Man. Put these two on your bookshelf and study them and you will be way ahead of most guys in understanding how to be a man.

For the book, archetypes were what Jung talked about in the universal sense; that these different types are in each of us; i.e. in you is a king you, a warrior you, a magician you and a lover you. Which one is dominant minute to minute is determined by your understanding and the meaning you give a situation and the need you have at the moment.

Incredibly useful in personal growth and in counseling, drawing answers from these different "yous" can change your whole outcome. They are all in you, you just need to access them, and you do that by calling on them.

So, have a problem needing solved? Answer your own question by breathing deeply and then saying, "My warrior (or king, lover, magician) says..." Trust your subconscious to fill in the blanks.

This book will fill in many more details; it should be called, The Book For All Men.

In such a slim volume, the authors did a splendid job of introducing the reader to their 4 male archetypes. They concisely describe these archetypes and provide some arguments for their theory and some applications of their findings. Moore is a Jungian psychologist and Gillette is a mythologist. It's an interesting and fertile collaboration of specialties. But, they simply cannot do justice to the 4 archetypes in one, tiny, volume. Thus, they wrote and published a volume on each of the 4 archetypes (5 books in all). Therefore, I'd consider this an introductory volume or prequel (a bit like the Hobbit to the Lord of the Rings trilogy). It's good in its own right, but better viewed as part of a much larger work. This larger work rates at least 5 stars. By the way, Dr. Moore has also produced numerous audio tapes for the C. G. Jung Institute of Chicago (I'm a life member) which you can buy (or rent if you join). He's a great speaker. In addition to listening to the tapes, I've heard him in person when he came to Maryland. Great drawl!

Later volumes were written for each of the 4 male archetypes: The King Within: Accessing the King in the Male Psyche,The Warrior Within : The Philosophies of Bruce Lee,The Magician Within: Accessing the Shaman in the Male Psyche, and The Lover Within: Accessing the Lover in the Male Psyche.

This book is the introductory shortest book of a five book series. The succeeding books treat each of the elements of mature masculinity (King, Warrior, Magician, Lover) in one volume each.
By far the most intriguing thought in the book for me is the authors assertion that what the problem with this world and men is that there is a overwhelming dominance of boyish, immature masculinity and hardly any mature, male masculinity.
To paraphrase the author: The world is full of boys pretending/playing to be men.
The book begins with a short intro in the difference between immature boy psychology and men psychology and some of their manifestations. Then Mythology and Jungian psychology are used to explain and highlight the King, Warrior, Magician and Lover. For each the author explains and differentiates between their full expression and their 'distorted' hyper-expression and under-expression which are both inferior and negative.
In general the focus was to much on the mythology part of the argument. I would have preferred a more psychology heavy treatment of the subject. But this is mostly a sign of the direction of my current interests. I would have as well wished there would have been more about how the boy vs men psychology manifestations differ and play out for each of the King, Warrior, Magician, Lover quartet.
But maybe more of that can be found in the 4 other books of the 5 book series.

This is a fantastic book that awakens archetypal themes in the collective soul and developmental stages for boys as they move into manhood. I taught this for years in college and found it very helpful for both men and women's gender understandings. Those who react against it will reject the Jungian archetypal psychology and the honest, ego-reducing self-awareness that comes with exploring one's unconscious. But it is their loss.

I would highly recommend this book for any man or woman who is interested in Jungian Archetypal personal development work. The book details the history of each of the quadratic archetypes and how it relates to todays world. It explains the immature versus mature stages of the archetypes development in people. It also details the passive and aggressive behavior of these archetypes as manifest in men in our society today. The book came to me as recommended reading for a New Warrior Training Adventure weekend which I participated in. While it may not be an 'easy read' it does provide ample food for thought for the seekers among us.

I first read this book when it appeared in the early '90s, when the Men's Movement was everywhere (how long ago that seems). I have come back to the book many, many times for guidance and insight, finding relevance in different portions as I have aged, changed jobs, and faced new challenges. There is a reason why this book remains in print: it's an intelligent, clear, and well-grounded examination of the primary facets of men's selves and how men can use this understanding to improve their lives. The authors discuss each of the title's four archetypes in turn, explaining both the positive and negative aspects of each one, and how each can interact with the others. A particular strength is the authors' ability to describe each archetype in a vivid, three-dimensional (yet concise) way that enables you to *see* the archetype at work in yourself and others. I would recommend this book especially for readers who may be turned off by self-help works that are either too simplistic or too mystical. And, as other reviewers have pointed out, much of it would appear to be of interest to women as well as men.

Hello,

actually Elliott Hulse brought me here. I was curious and started to read.

The book puts males into four different categories. You'll find your category and learn about it's nature: How you act and why.
It was astonishing to me how much the book "knew" about me. You'll also find your friends in one of these categories. Every category has it's own "shadow side" which you also have in yourself. You'll see how it expresses itself and work on it.

Alltogether, I found it usefull to understand why every category act as they act. What you do with that knowledge is up to you.... :)

I really enjoyed this book. It is nicely written, provides an interesting insight into masculine psychology and is written in an intelligent but easy to read style. Strongly recommend it and am pretty sure will dip back into it from time to time, if not will re-read it again.

Without doubts, one of the most inspirational, arresting and powerful books I have ever read. The description of man's mind and the classification of it into the child's and the man's is very helpful. The authors make references to world literature and myths (what helps the iniciate and beginner) have a much richer understanding of these archetypal forces. I would like to know whether they kept on working on this project. What have they done recently? Anyone interested in getting involved with Jung's theory will find it a very good choice.

Moore and Gillette are Jungian Depth Psychologists who, it appears from their writing, have never actual met anyone who embodies the males roles of which they claim expertise.
In decrying the lack of initiation rituals for boys to become men in western culture Moore and Gillette identify pseudo-rituals of initiation such as the rituals involved in gang membership, the prison population, and the military. In their comments explaining their lumping of the military in with criminals they reveal their lack of understanding of the United States military (and, I would add, any functional military in the world today). Moore and Gillette refer to the transitioning of civilians to soldiers through, what they clearly do not understand to be a highly structured and disciplined harrowing process, of “Boot Camp” to be an initiation rite as fantasy and refer to it as a period of sadistic humiliation and non-identity (90). They go on to say such pseudo-initiations do not produce men because “real men are not wantonly violent or hostile” (5). This further reveals the authors absolute lack of understanding of the military. Moore and Gillette go even further yet and refer to the military as an “obvious example” of dysfunctional warrior energy (93). This lack of understanding is an important consideration when the subject of their writing is “Warrior” masculinity. It seems, from the disdain they show for soldiers, as if Moore and Gillette have a warrior archetype that does not reflect the reality of warriors.
Moore and Gillette use as a positive example of an initiation rite one utilized by the Brazilian Indians in which a boy is ritually put to death, left to be eaten by ants, and left writhing in physical agony before restored by the village elders. Such an extreme test is presented as to what it is that forces the boy psychology to transition into man psychology.
Although it is an obvious concern that they express, it can be difficult to understand how Moore and Gillette understand ritual initiation. They exalt the extreme but in their explanation of modern ritual initiation for the boys of today they tell the reader the boy needs psychotherapy (in multiple forms), meditation on positive archetypes, prayer, and magic with a spiritual elder, among other things, none of which reflect the physical hardship and ritual dying they claim is so important. (43)

....but in a puerarchy ("puer," from the Latin for "boy"): this is a thesis I find extremely useful in understanding why the world is how it is: the scufflings, posturings, threats, hostility, and outright violence are actually the actions of boys pretending to be men. The least useful part of this book is the Jungian theory--archetypes spelled out in crystal-shaped diagrams and so forth. Otherwise good basic reading and useful for men's groups.

Great book. This really honors all the places for Men. The deeper knowing that most men are not aware of in their own lives and a great addition to those that are reclaiming their walk with consciousness .

This is one of the most important books that I have ever purchased. I also read Iron John and feel almost as strong. It's been a year since I read KWML and I go back to it often. Since reading it more than a year ago, I have noticed that I now apply this knowledge, which benefits others around me, as well as myself. I can easily say that it has matured me in dramatic ways, opening pathways, giving me more confidence in my relationships with women on a personal level (the women I've dated) as well as on a professional level (the women I work with, for, etc.). It helps me to identify which men should mentor me and whom I should avoid. On a philisophical level, this brought new challenges in the face of a world unprepared or unwilling for the maturation of men. However, the rewards are great for you and those around you, because I now believe the greatest acheivement of man is his own maturation and I am confident that all your friends and loved ones, secretly cheer you on to that goal - the same way Arthur's kingdom flourished when he drank from the grail. Or perhaps how Christ calmed a raging sea. Seize this pearl.

My brother lent me this book, and I was quite prepared to not like it at all - it seemed at first to be one of those sappy men's movement books.
However, once I started reading it I finished it in one long sitting.
The concepts are simple and make sense.
The core concept is that every man has varying amounts of King (representing the ability to bring order out of chaos, and a sort of benevolent use of power), Warrior( the ability to marshal resources, have courage, bear pain, make clear choices based on facts not emotions), Magician (or "alchemist" - concerned with knowledge and skill, and how to use it), and Lover (emotionally connected to others, having empathy).
Each one of these attributes has many good qualities; they can turn negative however, in both active and passive ways. The book cogently explains the symptoms of this - this was the part of the book that made me think the authors knew what they were talking about, in that I saw myself and my co-workers in some of the examples.

I'll try to keep this brief. Crucial to my journey these last ten+ years (age 50-60) has been steadily relistening to these tapes. Each time I 'hear' something new and provocative. If you care about personal growth, go for it with these tapes. Women: note that three of the four archetypes apply directly to you: warrior, magician and lover. And the 'king' has much in common with the 'queen'; -- so, don't hesitate -- it'll be one of the best purchases you've ever made. I've used these and their books as a springboard for some adult ed classes that I've taught in Hunterdon County, and also to flesh out important messages in the music of Garth Brooks (relating to the human journey)in a self-published book I wrote. This resource, plus Riso or Palmer on the Enneagram (q.v. @ the store!), plus maybe the prodigal son story, are all you should ever need. Thank you Robert and Doug, and thank you the store.com for making this forum available!

King, Warrior, Magician, Lover is a great book.

Personally, what I've found most interesting was the picturing of how men can manifest the archetype's energies in infantile manners. It's also very interesting how it maps the archetypes with certain myths and religions. Personally, I like the "all the different theories fit together" feeling it gives.

I would not say that this is a self-help book. But in times where children raising is so poor, the book plays its part in helping men become more mature. And that is very, very valuable.

That's it. Sorry for my bad english.

An extremely helpful book for understanding the archetypes of the masculine. An interesting mix of Jungian psychology and mythology.

Lisa Michaels
Author, Creation Coach, Speaker

Nature's Success System: Secrets to Energize Your Health, Wealth and Passion with the Feminine Power of Creation

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Prosperous Priestess Handbook: A Guide to Unlock the Secret Riches of Your Inner Creation Goddess

Natural Rhythms: Connect the Creational Dance of Your Life to the Pulse of the Universe

Offensive to the Christian. Too bad...the premise really carried itself well! I myself do not get offended- I choose not to be. However, the constant ridiculing of a true relationship with Christ our Lord was just too much to stomach and led me to completely lose all interest in the writer(s)- credibility wasted.

If you want to understand the underlying philosophy of the men's movement, New Warrior, and related activities, this is the book to read. This book, along with Bly's Iron John, launched the Men's Movement, and is the brains behind the movement--offering a psychology of growth and healing.

Using common terminology and examples from contemporary movies, this book easily leads the reader through the thick, dense forest of archetype psychology as applied to the lives of present day men. Superbly delineating between aspects of boy psychology and their counterparts in mature men, the book also identifies factors critical to male psychic development that are severely at risk in our technology-driven, consumer oriented culture. Much of what the authors present can be extrapolated to girl/woman psychology.

I walked around in this world for two years before I finally picked this book up. Given to me by a minister friend, this book sat and waited for me. This is quite simply, the best book I have read in years. Every man needs to read this book, and women, too, for that matter. I have passed it on to sons, friends, and will continue to spread the word. A must read, it will make your life better.

This book made me look at the male
population differently than ever
before. There is a lot of truth
here. I can see the pattern the
authors are talking about every day.
This book was very enlightening for
me.

I suggest reading it more than once in order to grasp the ideas the book talks about.

I gave it three stars because I think that it should have been written in a way which is easier to understand.

Moore and Gillette are Jungian Depth Psychologists who, it appears from their writing, have never actual met anyone who embodies the males roles of which they claim expertise.
In decrying the lack of initiation rituals for boys to become men in western culture Moore and Gillette identify pseudo-rituals of initiation such as the rituals involved in gang membership, the prison population, and the military. In their comments explaining their lumping of the military in with criminals they reveal their lack of understanding of the United States military (and, I would add, any functional military in the world today). Moore and Gillette refer to the transitioning of civilians to soldiers through, what they clearly do not understand to be a highly structured and disciplined harrowing process, of “Boot Camp” to be an initiation rite as fantasy and refer to it as a period of sadistic humiliation and non-identity (90). They go on to say such pseudo-initiations do not produce men because “real men are not wantonly violent or hostile” (5). This further reveals the authors absolute lack of understanding of the military. Moore and Gillette go even further yet and refer to the military as an “obvious example” of dysfunctional warrior energy (93). This lack of understanding is an important consideration when the subject of their writing is “Warrior” masculinity. It seems, from the disdain they show for soldiers, as if Moore and Gillette have a warrior archetype that does not reflect the reality of warriors.
Moore and Gillette use as a positive example of an initiation rite one utilized by the Brazilian Indians in which a boy is ritually put to death, left to be eaten by ants, and left writhing in physical agony before restored by the village elders. Such an extreme test is presented as to what it is that forces the boy psychology to transition into man psychology.
Although it is an obvious concern that they express, it can be difficult to understand how Moore and Gillette understand ritual initiation. They exalt the extreme but in their explanation of modern ritual initiation for the boys of today they tell the reader the boy needs psychotherapy (in multiple forms), meditation on positive archetypes, prayer, and magic with a spiritual elder, among other things, none of which reflect the physical hardship and ritual dying they claim is so important. (43)

Moore and Gillette are Jungian Depth Psychologists who, it appears from their writing, have never actual met anyone who embodies the males roles of which they claim expertise.
In decrying the lack of initiation rituals for boys to become men in western culture Moore and Gillette identify pseudo-rituals of initiation such as the rituals involved in gang membership, the prison population, and the military. In their comments explaining their lumping of the military in with criminals they reveal their lack of understanding of the United States military (and, I would add, any functional military in the world today). Moore and Gillette refer to the transitioning of civilians to soldiers through, what they clearly do not understand to be a highly structured and disciplined harrowing process, of “Boot Camp” to be an initiation rite as fantasy and refer to it as a period of sadistic humiliation and non-identity (90). They go on to say such pseudo-initiations do not produce men because “real men are not wantonly violent or hostile” (5). This further reveals the authors absolute lack of understanding of the military. Moore and Gillette go even further yet and refer to the military as an “obvious example” of dysfunctional warrior energy (93). This lack of understanding is an important consideration when the subject of their writing is “Warrior” masculinity. It seems, from the disdain they show for soldiers, as if Moore and Gillette have a warrior archetype that does not reflect the reality of warriors.
Moore and Gillette use as a positive example of an initiation rite one utilized by the Brazilian Indians in which a boy is ritually put to death, left to be eaten by ants, and left writhing in physical agony before restored by the village elders. Such an extreme test is presented as to what it is that forces the boy psychology to transition into man psychology.
Although it is an obvious concern that they express, it can be difficult to understand how Moore and Gillette understand ritual initiation. They exalt the extreme but in their explanation of modern ritual initiation for the boys of today they tell the reader the boy needs psychotherapy (in multiple forms), meditation on positive archetypes, prayer, and magic with a spiritual elder, among other things, none of which reflect the physical hardship and ritual dying they claim is so important. (43)

Moore and Gillette set up archetypes, starkly oversimplified character sketches of one-dimensional people with clearly delineated faults. Then they belittle people who "behave that way," attracting the respect of judgmental readers who love to share criticisms of third parties.

Maybe in some ways the faulted behavior can be situationally appropriate. This possibility is never raised. I lost patience with the book after 30 something pages and flipped through the rest of it. The writer enables a critical audience to reinforce essentially irrational negative thoughts about people. Why should anyone be surprised to find the victims of that criticism responding to its irrationality in ways the critic does not want to hear?

Some people will disagree with me, but that's because they like to be told they're oppositional.

Someone recently recommended this to me and I read it in 3 hours because it's a very short book. The trouble is, it doesn't feel very short when you're reading it because it's preaching, repetitive and chock-full of irrelevant and poorly-chosen cultural references that reveal more about the author's own beliefs than convey any message or impart any pearls of wisdom.

This book is an example of utter mediocrity published under the guise of self-help: this is poorly written, poorly argued, poorly illustrated and contains disturbing sub-textual murmurings that anyone with any sense will be able to spot.

If you're a vulnerable reader, at a low point, looking for something (eg religion) then maybe this book, with its focus on the mumbo-jumbo end of things, will provide you with some solace.

For anyone else it is dumbed-down drivel that needs to go in the bin as fast as possible.

Shame on you Harper Collins: did anyone at your editorial staff actually read this crock?

I was absolutely astounded that so many absolutely horrible ideas could be packed into one book. I read this book on the recommendation of a friend and finished it in one night. The *only* thing that kept me reading was that I found it entertaining to write my refutations in the columns. By the time I finished, I was seriously pissed off.

There were a few good ideas here and there, but it seemed only a few pages later that you'd read as strong an assertion to the contrary. And if you take out all the references to pop culture and old movies, you'd be left with about half as much book. Consider yourself warned.

I took the book back to my friend and told her what I thought. She said, "oh, well I never actually read it." Great.

After finishing the first half of the book (chapters 1-4 out of 8) I decided not to invest any more time in it. For me the bible is not a book of myths as the author repeatedly says. I see it as a book of history--a book of facts recorded for our benefit. The entire first half of the book repeatedly refers to the bible as a book of myths and then draws its conclusions based on that position. The foundation is flawed and so I have very little confidence in the accuracy of the author's conclusions.