The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society

Super good book on the subject of severe stress response. The title is a bit misleading when you first read it. I strongly suggest this book to anyone that has experienced a situation involving the severe stress of combat, rape or the current exposure to our growing domestic issues from both law enforcement side and civilian side. This is not a how to do book on killing. It is just the opposite in my opinion. I would like to thank Mr. Grossman for his fine work.

This is an incredible work on the psychology of the common man who is not predisposed to taking a person's life having to learn and then execute the killing of their fellow man. The author goes into great depth and detail to successfully deliver a product that is easy, albeit not a comfortable, comprehension of the subject. This book is not for the faint of heart and yet is an extremely enlightening and compelling read.

This scientific discussion of violence, aggression and killing in the Wars of the 19th, 20th and 21st century has an unexpected conclusion- we, as a society, are now more desensitized to violence and killing than our ancestors. There are many factors that contribute to this including non-stop violence in the media, decline of the traditional societal values and parental oversight.

After talking to a doctor friend of mine he recommended this book. After listening to the audio of the book it sure explains a lot about certain people. Some of our politicians need to read this. They would have a different outlook on sending young men to war.

Want to learn? This will teach you. Anyone studying to be a doctor, nurse, cop, attorney, priest, teacher, you get the message, read this. Be warned though, its not like watching the evening news. You'll actually have to think.

An excellent exploration and study of a very complex and mystifying process. I would recommend this to military, LEO and public officials. Understanding the dynamics of the killing process may help lower the frequency of apparently senseless deaths of young minority people by the otherwise honorably serving law enforcement officers.

This is an outstandingly well researched and written account about how the majority of humans have an aversion to killing their fellow humans. It goes into great detail to show how much effort it has taken the military to condition soldiers to fire at a human opponent (within strict parameters) on the battle field. All of this documentation is used to preface the fact that our society has been programming our youth in the same way to be conditioned or desensitized (with no parameters) to shoot/kill fellow humans through violent TV, movies and video games. The author, Lt. Colonel Dave Grossman makes a strong argument for restrictions on what kids watch and the video games they play.

Colonel Grossman's views and insights on the effects of combat on soldiers is an eye opener. The desensitizing techniques used to train soldiers are now found in media such as films, television, video games. These techniques are conditioning our children. His numbers on homicides strongly suggest that these issues are one of the main causes of the youth "going crazy" in todays society.

Discovered this 20 years ago, and still critically relevant today. Provides a great psychological approach to how to minimize the mental health burden of organized violence while still doing the necessary deed, and how to maximize performance. Uses police data for most of its research due to its more complete analysis at the time. Drifts off base in some chapters, but still a must-read. Read it first, then follow up quickly with his On Combat.

This text provides a very educational look into killing. Anyone who legally concealed carries to defend them selves should read this. Have you really trained and prepared enough for if you ever really do need to defend your self, family, friends or others? This book will help you answer that question.

I found this book very informative. It's extremely well put together and using real life examples when explaining mans reluctance to kill and the conditioning and programming use to overcome this reluctance. As someone who is interested in psychology, I found this book we'll worth reading and would recommend it to everyone.

People think they understand violence in the human animal. People are ignorant. Violence doesn't work the way most people think. Read this book to learn some truth and get some reality on board.
I disagree with the very last part of the book. This book was written at a time when all experts agreed that the coming inevitable youth violence epidemic was going to be unprecedented, and these authors believed it too. Then... well, it just didn't happen. Despite hyperbole and professional handwringing, random street violence is at a half-century low.
So, yeah, one failed prediction at the end of the book because the authors just don't really understand video games. Whatver.
The rest of the book was masterful and fantastic.

This is, essentially the exact same review I have to give for "On Combat," and for the same reasons.

Anyone that is planning on serving in the military or law enforcement must read this book. I would also state that anyone with a Concealed Carry Permit should read it as well. Col Grossman is exceptional in his research and understanding of combat stress, trauma and PTSD. My nephew was entering the Marine Corps so I bought him and his family a copy of both On Killing and On Combat. The more information that our soldiers and law enforcement have the better they will be at their jobs and protecting us.

Interesting take on an important subject.

Covers more than simply 'killing'. Also attacks the causes of PTSD and the differences between 'in your face' killing and 'killing at a distance', two completely separate issues. Also led me to cobble together a theory of mass shooting, posted to my blog.

There seemed to be lots of careful research to back up claims made in the majority of this book. The different sections came together to support the thesis and they made sense individually. It's an interesting and rare topic. Being that I am in the military, I am glad to have been referred this book. It was not on a must read short list for an academy, however, some with combat experience have talked highly of On Killing.

Dave Grossman is in expert in his field and offers great insight in the mindset of the soldier of recent history and ties this into other social issues. While not light reading I really enjoyed the book.

The author is very well-versed in the subject and has interviewed many soldiers and LEOs who have killed in their line of work. This is definitely a scholarly treatise on the subject of what happens to a person who has to kill, whether it is to his mind, emotions, bodily reaction to the kill before, during and after the shooting or stabbing. This is a serious book that anyone who carries a weapon, whether it is a gun, knife or bayonet would do well to read and understand. Killing is not easy to do.

I had the pleasure of hearing LT. Col. Dave Grossman speak live this year, prior to the horrible shootings in CT. This book really looks into the psychological issues having to do with people taking another human life. There is much more to it then you really would think. Using solid research evidence LT. Col. Grossman explores the human history of violence, and how our society has morphed into the sick place it is now. This book is used as required text for many reputable academies and schools. I am pleased to have the honor to read it.

The writer hits the nail on the head. The technical aspects of current military training that enables the soldier to "kill the enemy" is there but just as much needs to be done to help them turn it off and personally deal with effects of combat. Uncle Sam needs to put the same effort into turning the soldier into a civilian.

dave grossman is a former army ranger turned phycologist. studied killing from the civil war up to today. i would wish that every military personnel would read this book. it might help with the PTSD that we experience

As a retired cop who had going eyeball to eyeball in a kill or be killed situation, I still get flashbacks 40 years later... and this book is so right on in explaining much of the issue. I am married to a psychiatrist who has expanded issues that he addresses.. specifically in the area of evolutionary genetic motivations... but fully consistent with the authors work. The highest accolades to the author.

This is a very interesting book, in which the author Dave Crossman analyses the history of personal combat, draws conclusions on why the killing rate of soldiers in combat is amazingly low, and ends the book by analyzing the reasons of increase of violence in modern society.
The book starts with the history of combat from ancient Greece to the modern days. The author shows how amazingly hard it is for a soldier to [destroy] a fellow man, even in war. Crossman explains this by stating that in a man, there is an innate aversion towards [destroying] another human being. Through history, the military has tried to overcome this aversion to improve the effectiveness of its soldiers. In the 20th centyry, there was a substantial increase of this effectiveness, by using the conditioning process to condition the soldiers to [destroy]. The conditioning process has been so effective that when in the Civil war era only few percent of the soldiers were willing to [destroy], the ratio has risen to 15-20 percent in world war II, and to about 90 percent in [SE Asia].
At the end of the book, Crossman states that violence in society is rising because of similar conditioning process than that used by military, but without the same safety measures. This conditoining happens via entertainment industry, which is becoming increasingly more violent. It's interesting to note that Crossman thinks that violent computer games, where the player is an active participant in the game, are not as dangerous as television, where the audience is just passively watching the violence. He makes a strong point, however, and it's hard not to agree with him.
In conclusion, I would say that this is a very interenting book. I would recommend it to anyone who is interested in military history, or who is concerned about the increasing violence in society today.

Lt. Col. Dave Grossman did a great job, of explaining how we as a people are trained and how we can adapt to doing our job (Military), and how to cope with the fact of taking a life in combat, is awesome. This book is written for those who have served in either the military or law enforcement, to help explain what happens psychologically when you have to do your job and sometimes the unfortunate truth in that, is that you have to take another persons life. Great book Lt. Col. Grossman, Thank you!!!!

Critical insight on the evolution of battle effectiveness & mental processing of all manner of killing. Civilian engagement & self-defense mortality add a sense of immediacy for those considering their call-to-arms or relating to those who must. Perhaps one of the essential reads for the 21st century. - G. Eaton

Recommended by my PTSD counselor. Found it intelligently written but seemed little new, So many quotes that it felt more like a meta analysis. As a Professional statistician with terminal degree I found myself challenging sampling methodologies of many cited works. However the general premises are still valid. He has good credentials except he has no field combat experience, which he genuinely acknowledges is a detractor; though he sees it as a minor one rather than a major one. One last comment, I was a "black ops" type who had to function differently than many others. He does mention them, but it left me feeling more like a psychopath than a "soldier with a mission" that required extraordinary measures. I wish more had address those who may have killed "innocents" in the name of the mission. Just a thought. Lt Col Grossman, should you chose, I would be happy to discuss this further with you at [email protected] . Otherwise a worthwhile read and a book to hold on to

Valuable truths about human programing, intended or not. A warning as to American youth and the desensitizing of morals and blurring reality. The immersion into gaming and the ease of killing that these games produce is going to be a problem.

Outstanding and well researched work, highly recommend for all parents raising kids in these times and also those that are the actual warriors of our society----this book, and everything else in this series is well worth the read.

This is an interesting study of human nature, and should be read by every single person on the planet. Maybe we'd understand each other better than any series of FaceBook postings could ever generate. I read this and actually felt better and more positive toward my fellow man. It's not all guts, gore and violence. Give it a shot. (no pun intended, but it's still funny, no?)

Col. Dave Grossman does the unthinkable in this book. He lauds the bravery of the soldiers who participate in the killing of their fellow man and acknowledges the nobility of the unspoken many who have chosen not to kill at an astonishing rate. Neither macabre and voyueristic, nor toting pacifist paradigms Grossman explains the psychology of professional soldiers around the world and throughout history with respect and honour. Grossman isn't the most fluent writer I have ever read, but his tone balances the paradoxes of soldiers who must kill to protect peace.

A well written book about a subject that is taboo in our society - Grossman takes the reader through history and the societies that regulate killing - either through military actions or societal actions - what is acceptable and what isn't - as a society and as an individual

A straight forward analysis of complex ideas.

As a soldier myself, I could relate...even when I didn't want to.

Many chapters and excerpts have been taken from this book and referenced is formal military education. I wanted to get the complete book for a total read. It is the type of book that you read and reflect, read and reflect. This is a book that you read with a highlighter.

For any military analyst or student of human nature, this book is a must!

After twnety years in the Marine Corps with the draft and all volunteer this book is a real downer... good for ref. for a college term paper remember this is my opinion and frankly evryone I saw and knew utilized the resources given to their upmost ability.... as in close with and destroy the enemy...

Most powerful book I've ever read about KILLING, the fundamental outcome of all Wars. I still remain Pro-Military but Anti-War and this book solidifies my statement even more. Read this book and have others read it too, War and Killing should be the very last choice and if we must go to War - go to win in 30 days, there is no morality in killing but if a nation wants to negotiate with bad people - it must have the big stick behind it's back to do it. The facts you will get out of this book will shock you.

This is the definitive work that explains what happens to those in combat psychologically. It explains historically and psychologically what happens to people in combat. The literature review is the best on the topic. LTC Grossman is an exceptional and articulate historian-psychologist. He is a former Psychology Professor at the US Military Academy at West Point and brings an academic and military view of history and psychology. I have taught many graduate level glasses in both psychology and security/terrorism and this is always a must read.

I read this book mainly as a psychologist working with PTSD among refugees, but the book has much more to offer than that.

First of all, however, it gave me a new and very important perspective on PTSD, that of the aggressor. Working with the victims of wars, I admit to have often neglected the fact that the victimizer may end up being just as traumatized as the victim. Also Grossman points out that the traumatic event in itself is only part of the equation, whether or not the traumatized person is accepted into the surrounding society may be a factor just as important. A very important notion regarding both war veterans and diplaced persons.

As an eager student of history, Grossman offered me long sought after answers to why we have not (yet) managed to extinguish ourselves as a race, despite countless wars and conflicts throughout our history. The many accounts on the difficulty of killing another human being offers some comfort in between the unnerving accounts of what the killer actually experiences during and after the act. It is quite different from the average action movie.

Finally Grossman discusses how modern armies have developed simple techniques to effectively overcome the resistance to killing, and how these techniques are also being applied in the computer gaming industry. Sadly this part of the book is mainly based on speculation and comparison of murder rates with increase in computer gaming. Still Grossmans makes a good argument that parts of the entertainment industry desentizises children to violence and actually encourages violent and murderous behavior is very unsetteling, and deserves the attention of every parent.

Criticisms:
It is being pointed out in other reviews, that the historical research on this book is based on few and very desputed sources, and it neglects other theories explaining the inaccuracy of shots fired in black powder battles (read William R. Forstchen's review of the book). This greatly challenges Grossman's theory of instinctively missing a human target, but does not, in my opinion, completely disqualify it. However it remains a subject for further study.
The use of the highly controversial concept of Thanatos adds to the notion that the scientific foundations of the book is not so solid after all.
The chapters regarding the effect of first-person-shooter games is based on statistics and very little direct research on the subject, and lacks alternative theories and explanations.

In conclusion Grossman touches on some very interesting topics, he handles his material eloquently and with great respect. Depite the serious criticism regarding his research, I still found Grossman's theories inspiring and thought-provoking, and although his theories cannot be applied universally, they have given me valualble new perspectives on human behavior.

This is an insightful book. I also found it hard to read because of the memories it triggered. I am a Vietnam vet and was initially trained as an infantryman. (I wasn't in the infantry by the time I went to Vietnam). This book definitely explains some of the training that I didn't fully understand at the time. I would recommend it to anyone who wants to better understand what it means to be a soldier (or serve in law enforcement).

Fantastic look into the psychology of killing on the battlefield and in law enforcement. He does get a little long and I wish he had published more of his interviews to back up his conclusions in the book. However, it was eye opening to a non-soldier as to what a soldier will go through and how the public can help.

Lt. Col. David Grossman's ON KILLING contains much information of great value. The good parts are superb. Unfortunately, there's a fair amount of dubious material too.
Grossman notes that many studies have shown that most soldiers in combat will not spontaneously fire a rifle at an enemy, and suggests that there is an instinctive barrier against killing our own species in most people. So far, so good, and the evidence he sites convinced me. But then he tries to apply this to all of military history, with dubious results. For instance, it never occurs to him that among the reasons so many people using smoothbore muskets missed are 1)The muskets had no sights; 2)The soldiers using them had no markmanship training -- in fact, they frequently went into their first battle without ever having fired their weapon at all; 3)It's always easier to shoot on the firing range than on the battle field (naval gunnery in combat deteriorated radically compared to pre-war practice). Similarly, 1% of the fighter pilots got 40% of the kills -- but considering that bomber gunners weren't taught how to fire properly at attacking fighters till almost the end of the war (see Geoffrey Perret's WINGED VICTORY), fighter training may have been similarly bad. And one reason so many of the abandoned muskets at Gettsyburg had multiple loads may well be that the soldiers who double loaded them were paniced, and the panic also led them to get killed, or drop their rifle and RUN.
When he comes to the plague of violence in modern urban USAmerica, Grossman is alarmed by violent video games and movies, and their possible effects on our children. An important subject, and he may be right. But I looked the movies he sees as dangerous (DIRTY HARRY, FRIDAY THE THIRTEENTH, etc.), and they didn't appear till after the rate of violent crime had shot up. Same with the video games. Nor is there much consideration of cross-cultural crime rates, even though "violent American movies" (and even more violent Japanese movies) are seen worldwide. Why the wide national differences in crime rates?
Further, while it's easy to see how a military training program that teaches automatic reactive firing in combat is rather like a modern video game, the high school massacres we've seen recently didn't occur as a result of someone firing at an armed teenager, who then went ape. They occured because kids brought guns to school with the deliberate, pre-meditated intention of murdering the unarmed. Mass murder and serial killing have existed throughout human history.
Still, even with these reservations, I highly recommend this book. Grossman has taken the first good look at a subject that has been almost totally ignored. I hope others follow his lead.

This explains the experience my friends who went to Vietnam had, the training and experience those who went to war for American have had since. It's something I felt I needed to know. This book gave me the knowledge I sought.

My story is not much different then that of others. This book has helped me understand my recurring thoughts and sleeplessness. This book should be required reading for all police officers so they have an early understanding of what they will experience throughout their career.

Unbelievable, except is. Wonderfully written, gets to the heart, explains with details the subject. This should be required reading for any person even thinking about the military - a true gem of a book.

This book takes you through the history of killing and explains modern military methods of increasing kill ratios but perhaps the most significant contribution of the research is how it relates to violence in society today. Interesting and easy to read yet scholarly and informative.

Very in depth study on violence, killing, the psychology behind it, the motivation for people to kill. Focuses on Soldiers in wars and conflicts but the concepts are all valid to regular citizens in any country, any circumstance. This will teach about how violence occurs among humans in various circumstances.

Awesome book, very well researched and written, only wish it was longer.

This was a fascinating read. For years I could not understand the dark feelings I've had about my time in the service (Vietnam era). I had always presumed it was about my disillusionment from the politics of the time and our loosing the war (as in not trying to win it :(. That perhaps had a little to do with it. There was the rejection and all those brave vets our nation treated so poorly and more I do not yet care to talk about. I always wondered why a part of me hoped I would run into one of those protesters again so that I could... I feel some closure now having understood what has happened and the reasons for my feelings. Anyway the book was good until the very end. As I have experienced more from life I no longer trust my life or anything else to the government. The only digression the book takes is the authors conclusion "that the more we disarm ourselves the safer we as a society will become". Scientific studies have refuted this idea quite well. Notice a nerve hit? Many of the root causes for the violence our society faces are very adequately handled. Other than the one faux pas I would fully endorse the book.